User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 67

  1. #31
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Um, what kind of moron takes a job at a Baptist private school in Texas and expects to have a child out of wedlock and all things be peachy?

    I'm really starting to get annoyed with people's lack of personal responsibility. It's one thing to be mocked for your sexual preference, race, or mental illness...it's entirely another to actively take a position (CHOOSE) and know the core philosophy of that private institution and expect the government to save you from you own mistake.

    There will be no freedom left in this country if private religious institutions aren't allowed to operate as they see fit, within reason.

    If that woman wanted freedom from religion, she should have worked at a different school.

    It would be like me teaching high school, and getting mad that I was fired that I chose to date a particularly developed 18 or 19 year old senior. Or teaching Kindergarten and posting topless pictures of myself on facebook.
    I'm not in disagreement with your basic premise although I don't think all of your comparisons are entirely equivalent to the situation described. From the article it sounded like that church community was accepting of her lifestyle in which she was living with a fiancé' out of wedlock, so she didn't expect the sudden change. She considers herself living consistently with them for the most part. How (un)realistic that idea is, I can't say for certain. I'd be curious if she was raised in that religion because sometimes that results in all of a person's friends, family, work, etc. to be connected and so they just fall into working for their church. It wouldn't be like me seeking out Baptists to hire me knowing I disagree with them on many issues.

    The church school probably had legal standing for the firing based on a contract or statements of belief and expected behaviors. I still think she is probably better off and yes I am making a judgment on what I assume certain aspects of the politics there are like, and that is based on experiences. Also, though from just a basic logic perspective, if she prefers a lifestyle different from that community it will be a positive step to find an environment more similar to her life and values, even though she saw that community as being the one.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #32
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    I don't know exactly what the Policies of the school are or how they treated this woman during the meetings. But, when churches don't make room for forgiveness and understanding in these situations they hurt the pro-life movement.
    Ftr, I know two excellent elders in two very evangelical churches who prior to being elders got their wives pregnant while engaged. So I don't think unwed parenthood mars someone's character to the point that they are unfit for leadership.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #33
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I'm not in disagreement with your basic premise although I don't think all of your comparisons are entirely equivalent to the situation described. From the article it sounded like that church community was accepting of her lifestyle in which she was living with a fiancé' out of wedlock, so she didn't expect the sudden change. She considers herself living consistently with them for the most part. How (un)realistic that idea is, I can't say for certain. I'd be curious if she was raised in that religion because sometimes that results in all of a person's friends, family, work, etc. to be connected and so they just fall into working for their church. It wouldn't be like me seeking out Baptists to hire me knowing I disagree with them on many issues.

    The church school probably had legal standing for the firing based on a contract or statements of belief and expected behaviors. I still think she is probably better off and yes I am making a judgment on what I assume certain aspects of the politics there are like, and that is based on experiences. Also, though from just a basic logic perspective, if she prefers a lifestyle different from that community it will be a positive step to find an environment more similar to her life and values, even though she saw that community as being the one.
    I think it's a case, not of your church community forgiving you for sex out of marriage, but the example you're giving for children.

    Even in a public school, you're not allowed to date or have sex with your students over 18, even though that would be legal anywhere else in the country. Why? Because people having sex with a student are regarded more as an "equal" and not an authority figure. Many young, pretty teachers even have trouble teaching the upper grades of high school for this reason, for example. I was advised stringently by a middle school teacher who taught her first year in high school, including seniors, not to teach high school until I was at least 40.

    There are just certain things you don't do around children, or when you're in a legal position of authority to influence children. That's just how it is, and why I decided against teaching. I accept the reality that if I am not a parent of that child, I have a responsibility to uphold very neutral, politically correct morals in order to cater to the majority of parents as a teacher, at any institution.

    Whether or not I would think it was a bad example or good example for my own children, nieces and nephews, or friends' children, it doesn't matter.

    When you join a group by choice you accept the morals of that group. I have this very basic understanding of Fe strangely enough for an Fi type. There are just things you don't do around children and old people. Maybe it's because I grew up in the South, an old-fashioned "shame" culture.

  4. #34
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think in this situation, let's just remember that she WAS in a fuzzy area -- apparently she had sex at least once shortly before they had planned to marry, so technically no one would have likely found out if they had just married as planned. For some reason, it got postponed, and she happened to conceive about the same time and suddenly was stuck. While she should have realized these people would play hardball and "gone by the book," she didn't deviate a TON outside the lines.... if the wedding hadn't gotten postponed, she would have probably been fine.

    Of course, she could have gotten an abortion; thank goodness she was such a terrible role model that she decided to keep her baby and ensure she'd probably lose her job. What terrible morals. She should be ashamed. What type of woman takes responsibility for her actions and keeps her baby?
    I had assumed she was living with her fiancé' but from what you describe here perhaps not. Anyway, I also read it as a fuzzy area where things went awry based on the technicality of the delayed wedding.

    As issues go there is likely more standing for the institution here, but it is easy to vent annoyance as a result of the larger picture in which institutions like the one described here step over their reasonable boundaries like with the pharmacies. Although, I think I have a solution for that one. Automated pharmacies with robot pharmacists who simply do their job.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Robot pharmacists: ha, i like! Kind of like Rosie the Robot, from The Jetsons?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    When you join a group by choice you accept the morals of that group. I have this very basic understanding of Fe strangely enough for an Fi type.
    I agree with your initial statement.
    Basically, if she's going to accept the privileges of being in that group, then she needs to accept the rules even if the rules are debatable.
    If she doesn't like it, she can leave the group and stop accepting the benefits.

    She can always choose to protest the rules and maybe effect some change in the group, if she feels strongly, but still must accept she'll probably have to make some sacrifices along the way.

    I just don't see the point in teaching at a Christian school (considering how little the teachers typically get in comparison even with public school teachers) unless you're willing to comply with the rules.

    There are just things you don't do around children and old people.
    Like throw grammy's kitty cat in the clothes dryer?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I agree with your initial statement.
    Basically, if she's going to accept the privileges of being in that group, then she needs to accept the rules even if the rules are debatable.
    If she doesn't like it, she can leave the group and stop accepting the benefits.

    She can always choose to protest the rules and maybe effect some change in the group, if she feels strongly, but still must accept she'll probably have to make some sacrifices along the way.

    I just don't see the point in teaching at a Christian school (considering how little the teachers typically get in comparison even with public school teachers) unless you're willing to comply with the rules.


    Like throw grammy's kitty cat in the clothes dryer?

  8. #38
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think it's a case, not of your church community forgiving you for sex out of marriage, but the example you're giving for children.

    Even in a public school, you're not allowed to date or have sex with your students over 18, even though that would be legal anywhere else in the country. Why? Because people having sex with a student are regarded more as an "equal" and not an authority figure. Many young, pretty teachers even have trouble teaching the upper grades of high school for this reason, for example. I was advised stringently by a middle school teacher who taught her first year in high school, including seniors, not to teach high school until I was at least 40.

    There are just certain things you don't do around children, or when you're in a legal position of authority to influence children. That's just how it is, and why I decided against teaching. I accept the reality that if I am not a parent of that child, I have a responsibility to uphold very neutral, politically correct morals in order to cater to the majority of parents as a teacher, at any institution.

    Whether or not I would think it was a bad example or good example for my own children, nieces and nephews, or friends' children, it doesn't matter.

    When you join a group by choice you accept the morals of that group. I have this very basic understanding of Fe strangely enough for an Fi type. There are just things you don't do around children and old people. Maybe it's because I grew up in the South, an old-fashioned "shame" culture.
    You are absolutely correct about being extra careful about boundaries with children, students, the elderly especially if it involves personally relating to them. For this issue I see someone getting pregnant with a fiancé' as an example of neutral, politically correct morals, at least for the general public.

    Interestingly enough one of my mothers' fellow elementary school teachers had been in pornography films 15-20 prior to teaching and it was never raised as an issue in that public school district. Some of the kindergarten teachers partied pretty hard, and it is funny, but true. It was a Wild West town, so maybe that's the difference.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #39
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    You are absolutely correct about being extra careful about boundaries with children, students, the elderly especially if it involves personally relating to them. For this issue I see someone getting pregnant with a fiancé' as an example of neutral, politically correct morals, at least for the general public.

    Interestingly enough one of my mothers' fellow elementary school teachers had been in pornography films 15-20 prior to teaching and it was never raised as an issue in that public school district. Some of the kindergarten teachers partied pretty hard, and it is funny, but true. It was a Wild West town, so maybe that's the difference.
    Well old porn isn't the same as fresh porn. It's also not the same as putting extremely sexual pictures of yourself on a public networking site like facebook, twitter, or god forbid myspace.

    Once you become an actual teacher, it's like being a knight or something. There's an invisible code of chivalry.

    Things have become more regimented than ever, too. But you really should expect that in a religious institution.

    I mean the teacher who told me not to teach high school, she was like, even like if your students flirt with you and you have one who won't leave you alone, they'll ask what you're doing "wrong." Are you dressing too sexy? Acting too flirtatious? Not keeping authority in your classroom? Even if you didn't actually DO anything, or encourage it, you can be held accountable because you're the teacher, and you can be in high school sometimes until you're like 20 years old, and the students who tend to be in high school until 20 are usually pretty rebellious to begin with, so they're less likely to hide their hard-on for Miss Smith.

  10. #40
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well old porn isn't the same as fresh porn. It's also not the same as putting extremely sexual pictures of yourself on a public networking site like facebook, twitter, or god forbid myspace.

    Once you become an actual teacher, it's like being a knight or something. There's an invisible code of chivalry.

    Things have become more regimented than ever, too. But you really should expect that in a religious institution.

    I mean the teacher who told me not to teach high school, she was like, even like if your students flirt with you and you have one who won't leave you alone, they'll ask what you're doing "wrong." Are you dressing too sexy? Acting too flirtatious? Not keeping authority in your classroom? Even if you didn't actually DO anything, or encourage it, you can be held accountable because you're the teacher, and you can be in high school sometimes until you're like 20 years old, and the students who tend to be in high school until 20 are usually pretty rebellious to begin with, so they're less likely to hide their hard-on for Miss Smith.
    Actually the kindergarten teachers who partied hard were in the days before social networking, so it wasn't public knowledge. I teach, but not in a school system, rather individual lessons, so I know about the need for hard boundaries. I won't teach out of my home or let people know my phone number or anything. I do have problems with adult men crossing boundaries that I report to the office and get them off my student list. Teenagers aren't a problem, but I do have to be careful what I wear and for far more reasons than that I guard what is posted online and I do hide the fact that I'm not religious, so can relate to some of the restriction issues. It helps that I am too introverted to socialize, so no danger of other people posting pics.

    My impression of southern culture is that it intertwines the personal into more layers of social interactions including the professional, than in other parts of the U.S. There are places like the northern Midwest where personal privacy kept separate from public interaction is assumed. It is considered impolite even to ask too many questions about a person, and greetings are exchnged rather tersely. It's closer to what an introvert society would be like.

    Social networking will change that separation of personal and professional everywhere, but I wonder which direction it will settle. At first people may be hyper-vigilant to protect against an increased accountability, but I wonder if after a while people will relax into a different set of expectations.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

Similar Threads

  1. Iowa supreme court upholds woman's firing for being too attractive.
    By Magic Poriferan in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 12-24-2012, 05:24 PM
  2. Replies: 50
    Last Post: 01-31-2012, 08:12 AM
  3. Should Letterman be fired for being a perv?
    By Tigerlily in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-06-2009, 02:41 PM
  4. The member you most wonder for being (popularly) identified with
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 08-29-2008, 02:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO