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  1. #81
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    We can't say if a beauty pageant who allow transgenders would be a better success in buisness that a beauty pageant who don't if you don't allow concurence. And theses anti-discrimination laws forbid it.
    You seem to prefer to dismiss, how the momentum public opinion generates, conditions and shapes the fabric of society that comprises said public.
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  2. #82
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    NBC Universal might lose a lot of viewers based on the outcry alone, so that could very well have sparked the decision. Perhaps it wasn't worth the risk to the business, if the consumers [& politicians who attempt to represent them, etc] seemed pissed enough.
    I can guarantee you that most part of the straight male audience would prefer a Miss U contest without transgender. The political outcry doesn't matter.
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  3. #83
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i don't know what feminine sports are.
    You know what I meant.
    but what about competing against men?
    Yes; I think they should be allowed to compete against men.
    Otherwise we'd need to either include transgender categories for sports (impracticable) or ban them from every competition (unfair).
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  4. #84
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    You seem to prefer to dismiss, how the momentum public opinion generates, conditions and shapes the fabric of society that comprises said public.
    We can't take a good measure of this if we don't allow free concurence and discrimination.
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  5. #85
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Perhaps, if the society they live in allows them such freedom.
    That would be a truly free society.

    A society who doesn't allow to discriminate is not a truly free society.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #86
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I'm having difficultly seeing what the problem is, really. Especially as this woman never went through puberty as a male, so she's as female as it gets, other than being born with the wrong parts, and being XY, instead of XX. If you hadn't been told you'd never know.
    Like most transgenders, you'd meet...you'd probably never know, unless they told you. In some regards, she was punished for being honest, because and I'm being serious here, how many transgendered people have entered before without saying, also just how many do modeling etc? You'll be surprised when it comes to the modeling.
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  7. #87
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    Disgusting. I've always just considered it to be a cosmetic thing. (Transgenderism, I mean, as well as Miss Universe.)

    If I see a transgender converted from male to "female," I still refer to him as "him" and "he."

  8. #88
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    "Miss universe" includes "miss". So if they consider that someone is not a miss, it's their freedom of thought, and you have no right to impose them your conceptions about what a woman is.
    *wonders if only universes should be allowed to compete*
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #89
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü View Post
    Disgusting. I've always just considered it to be a cosmetic thing. (Transgenderism, I mean, as well as Miss Universe.)
    If I see a transgender converted from male to "female," I still refer to him as "him" and "he."
    Ironic, considering you just started a thread about getting cosmetic surgery on your face to look more "manly."

    If you really believe what you said above, maybe you just try being yourself / being a person who is attractive regardless of cosmetics.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The simple fact that a transgender could compete in a beauty pageant for women is horrible and disgusting.
    People focus far too much on biology; at this point the only physically male aspect remaining within Jenna Talackova is an XY chromosome, which is far as I'm concerned doesn't mean shit; no one asks a person upon first introduction, 'what chromosomes do you possess?'. In fact, physically she could be considered inter-sexed given that she lack any male genitalia but has female genitalia, has breasts and female hormones, lacks a uterus and ovaries, and has an XY chromosome. The first two physical aspects, while not natural from birth, aren't really different that what you would find on any other woman. The second two don't mean anything, since they pose no relevance towards the image nor identity of the person.

    Male and female on the psycho/social scale is different from biology; it's based off the identity of a person. We consider Jenna a 'female' in the sense that she basically is a woman in several crucial aspects, both psychologically and socially speaking. Physically she might not be perfect, but who the fuck cares? She looks like woman, acts like a woman, and is otherwise indistinguishable from other woman. And I mean let's face it, is there really any rational reason to hate against someone who is identical to women in how they look but wasn't born that way? No.

    If the leaders and jury of the beauty pageant refuse to let the transgender compete, that's their right. There's no legitimacy to force them to accept the transgender in the BP. And anyone who support such kind of procedures support dictatorship.
    Do you just hate everything government supported? The government is not a body of evil hell-bent on suppressing the masses; it's an essential tool for organizing and progressing society. Therefore when there's issues that need to be addressed, then the government needs to get involved when necessary.

    If the beauty pageant doesn't like that, well tough shit for them. Why should I tolerate their insipid stupidity because they can't accept or even fucking comprehend a transgendered person who fits the perfect out image of a female? Isn't that all beauty pageants are about though; that outer shallow image? Because if that's the case they should actually allow anyone in there, regardless of biological gender.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü View Post
    If I see a transgender converted from male to "female," I still refer to him as "him" and "he."
    Again, gender, sex, they're different.

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