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  1. #111
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Alright! First thread to get (partially) graveyard(ed?). You're interfering with my goal of making a thread that gets to 20+ pages though
    If it's any consolation, the threads that go beyond 20 pages are usually the dumbest ones.
    Sometimes acting retard is kinda liberating. This guy knows it very well:
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  2. #112
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Alright! First thread to get (partially) graveyard(ed?). You're interfering with my goal of making a thread that gets to 20+ pages though
    Best! Graveyarding! Evah!

    ... well, actually not. I've seen some pretty wack stuff get graveyarded.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    what in clusterfuck hell did this discussion turn into?
    yes.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #113
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Your "freedom to discriminate" does not overrule the basic rights of other people, which get violated if appropriate action is not taken by the state. Would you also be okay with people being banned from beauty pageants because of their race?
    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Yes. If some people want to create a beuty pageant for white women of black women only, that's their right and that's their freedom.


    Freedom of discrimination at work. A noble ideal you have there speed.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  4. #114
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Nothing, that's why I'am objective.
    A declaration of objectivity is meaningless, it must be demonstrated. The language you use is infused with emotion and subjectivity. It is possible you are objective, but it would suggest you are playing a game by choosing language that is not correlated with objectivity while insisting that you are detached and logical. It is not reasonable to expect others to read your arguments as not having a strong emotional content. There are many issues in your arguments which you have not proven, but expect others to take them at face value while taking a dominant position in w hich you are making others prove their points while not proving your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The only one goal of low is to protect life, freedom and right of property. The rest is sceondary bullshit and must not restrict personal freedom, in particulary the freedom to discriminate.
    Can you state what you consider secondary and why it is "secondary bullshit"? Technically the ability to participate in competitions or employment could fall under right to property, or even right to have the freedom to participate in society as an equal member.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I fucking don't care about his personal identity, it's his problem, not the mine.
    It is an issue of legality. It is irrelevant whether or not you care. Just as it is irrelevant if she cares about your identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    In a truly free society, everyone should be allowed to discriminate according to his personal criteria, without be coerced by the interests of a minority like the LGBT lobby.
    You are free to discriminate and you are doing it openly and without any legal recourse taken against you.
    I'm actually glad you said this because I was trying to make a point in another thread that some are seeking the "freedom to control others" and it struck a real nerve with some idealistic, fair-minded posters. In this case you are stating clearly that this is the desire for some people. People are free to discriminate, but not to be discriminated against in the public domain, so it calls into question at what level of power must discrimination be regulated. In order for freedom to exist, the desire to control or take freedom from others must be regulated.

    I've been thinking about this thread and why having a transgendered woman in a beauty contest strikes such a nerve, and some theories are emerging. This may or may not apply to you personally, but this will be a trigger point for society's tolerance. The core of the issue comes down to the relative power of the genders. There are certain places where men have been able to exercise feelings of dominance without intrusion. Admiring and objectifying women in a beauty contest is one such environment. To think that some of them could "secretly be men" could make a traditionally minded man feel "tricked". If he chose her as his favorite he could at best me embarrassed and mocked by his buddies, and at worst feel confused about his own sexuality. This is a deep psychological intrusion into an environment that was supposed to be safe for men to feel dominant and secure. These kinds of feelings require a number of deep assumptions about what a man and a woman is, and how a man can rightly think about a woman. If this wasn't an institution and event that thrived on the objectification of women, then crossing the gender boundary would not trigger such a nerve I suspect.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  5. #115
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    These kinds of feelings require a number of deep assumptions about what a man and a woman is, and how a man can rightly think about a woman. If this wasn't an institution and event that thrived on the objectification of women, then crossing the gender boundary would not trigger such a nerve I suspect.
    I could never understand what drove women to enter beauty contests to begin with. It seems like an unhealthy dynamic overall. For a transgendered woman, perhaps it is the ultimate validation of her physical transformation. Otherwise, it just comes across as a white person going down to the plantation and declaring, "See - I can be a slave, too".

    As for discrimination, we are free to do it as much as we want on any basis in our personal lives. We can date only from our own religion, have friends only from our own cultural group, move out if a black family moves in next door, etc. Society has come to see some value in maintaining a level playing field publically, however, in regard to jobs, housing, education, public services, and the rule of law. The situation is still far from perfect, both on paper and in reality, but in these cases, discrimination is limited to what is objectively relevant to the situation at hand (e.g. discriminating against job applicants who lack the necessary skills).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #116
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As for discrimination, we are free to do it as much as we want on any basis in our personal lives. We can date only from our own religion, have friends only from our own cultural group, move out if a black family moves in next door, etc. Society has come to see some value in maintaining a level playing field publically, however, in regard to jobs, housing, education, public services, and the rule of law. The situation is still far from perfect, both on paper and in reality, but in these cases, discrimination is limited to what is objectively relevant to the situation at hand (e.g. discriminating against job applicants who lack the necessary skills).
    True.

    And that applies especially on the transgender thing. If we really consider that feminity and masculinity are subjective thing, then we should let every private person or private organisation judge peoples according to their own personal judgement without being forced in their opinion by any legal papers. To anybody who show them a paper, they should be allowed to say "fuck off".

    For the racial discrimination, the best solution is economic growth, full emplyement, free-competition and laissez-faire capitalism.

    For racial segregation, it's a statist decision, just like legal papers establishing the liberals view as the unchallengable norm are a statist decision, that has nothing to do with what i'm defend. But have a lot in common with what the LGBT lobby defend.
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  7. #117
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I could never understand what drove women to enter beauty contests to begin with. It seems like an unhealthy dynamic overall. For a transgendered woman, perhaps it is the ultimate validation of her physical transformation. Otherwise, it just comes across as a white person going down to the plantation and declaring, "See - I can be a slave, too".
    I think some people find it fulfilling. *shrug* I mean, why read so much subtext into it? For some people, perhaps the subtext exist, but some people just like getting dressed up, doing their thing, meeting the other girls, etc. It's kind of a weird bonding/competing atmosphere. I would expect there to be some similarities to body-building, where people are competing indirectly with each other but also end up being friends with the other people who habitually compete.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #118
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's kind of a weird bonding/competing atmosphere. I would expect there to be some similarities to body-building, where people are competing indirectly with each other but also end up being friends with the other people who habitually compete.
    Weird is right. I don't body-build, so can't relate there either. I do appreciate the social aspect of the activities I participate in, but the activities themselves have a bit more substance to them. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #119
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Is there a question to the OP? Or are you simply trying to make us aware?

    Anyway, I find it acceptable that a transgender person is allowed to compete. But what is annoying is that she has gone through SURGERY. If the surgery was done only to remove what is unnecessary it is acceptable. But it doesn't stop there does it? One could do enhancements on their looks as much as they like in surgeries. And I have a good feeling that she has done exactly that. This is extremely unfair. Shouldn't the winners of such a competition be chosen from their natural looks?

    It has come to a stage where the one who could afford the best surgery wins!!!! Urgh!
    On one hand, most girls get breast augmentations, nose jobs, etc. So I don't see this as that big a deal. I don't care either way. Good for her. If I had any kind of hat in the ring I would be crying no fair to the fact that even though she is now female in every way, she was born male. They have less body fat, are taller, don't have much in the way of hips and that makes for a banging body. How can a female by birth compete with that? Difficult. However, I am ignorant of how hormone therapy affects transgenders. Does the hormones negate those things? Get more fatty tissue, etc. I'd like to know that.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  10. #120
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    However, I am ignorant of how hormone therapy affects transgenders. Does the hormones negate those things? I'd like to know that.
    i bet you would
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