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  1. #21
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    I'll quote myself from the Black Panther party thread:

    Meh... I kind of think they're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

    The stand you're ground law would be fine if the burden of proof was shifted to the shooter to prove that the situation warranted deadly force.

    Unfortunately, the its worded now, the law creates an opportunity for itchy trigger fingers.

  2. #22
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    Some advocate changing stand your ground so that it only applies at your place of residence and place of employment the argument being that you have nowhere to escape to in these situations, but that in public it is possible to flee. What do you think of this?
    Yea we already have that, it's called the "castle doctrine".

    vis-a-vis the interface of class and race-based entitlement.
    You were doing so well up to that point.






    Florida is such a backwards, fucked up State.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=DiscoBiscuit;1814505]Yea we already have that, it's called the "castle doctrine".



    You were doing so well up to that point.

    \
    Do you have anything to add to the discussion?

  4. #24
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    anything to add to the discussion?
    The stand you're ground law would be fine if the burden of proof was shifted to the shooter to prove that the situation warranted deadly force.
    Already did.

    Now I'm just enjoying myself.

    The only questions here are legal questions.

    Did the situation warrant the use of deadly force or not?

    If so be on your way George. If not, enjoy the intimate surroundings of a penitentiary.

    Race doesn't matter, class doesn't matter.

    The desire to whip this up into some sort of racial/class outrage is just tiresome at this point.

  5. #25
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    After reviewing the timeline of events and some articles written about the shooting and what happened, I feel that there probably was an altercation and Zimmerman may have been acting in self defense, but he none the less violated Neighborhood Watch policies that were probably written to prevent something like this from happening and that at the end of the day, whatever his reasons, he shot and killed an unarmed minor. Horribly bad judgement on his part.

    Me thinks a manslaughter charge would be appropriate.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  6. #26
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Already did.

    Now I'm just enjoying myself.

    The only questions here are legal questions.

    Did the situation warrant the use of deadly force or not?

    If so be on your way George. If not, enjoy the intimate surroundings of a penitentiary.

    Race doesn't matter, class doesn't matter.

    The desire to whip this up into some sort of racial/class outrage is just tiresome at this point.
    Only a corn-fed suburban white guy would say that this has nothing to do with race or class.

  7. #27
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    Only a corn-fed suburban white guy would say that this has nothing to do with race or class.
    What is the goal of all your foot stomping and screaming?

    It just distorts the issue in the media.

    What about all the Black on Black crime and violence.

    What about all the other firearm related related deaths.

    The only reason this is getting blown out of proportion is because Hispanics are considered white in many crime statistics, and that allowed everyone to yet again go nuts over racial injustice.

    The real tragedy is the over representation of young black men in violent death statistics.

  8. #28
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What is the goal of all your foot stomping and screaming?

    It just distorts the issue in the media.

    What about all the Black on Black crime and violence.

    What about all the other firearm related related deaths.

    The only reason this is getting blown out of proportion is because Hispanics are considered white in many crime statistics, and that allowed everyone to yet again go nuts over racial injustice.

    The real tragedy is the over representation of young black men in violent death statistics.
    That's really interesting. I'm not foot stomping, and I'm sure not screaming. Through the lens of your upbringing, that's what you perceive.
    It doesn't distort the issue in the media. It raises it, and it has been raised by thousands of people around the country. They're not all hysterical. Your lens is distorted.
    What about black on black crime and violence? Please don't change the subject.
    This has nothing to do with crime statictics. Do you really believe that most white americans think that hispanics are of the same race? I assure you that they do not.
    I agree with you on this point: black men are over-represented in violent death and incarceration. that, ultimately, is why this touches a nerve in America. Being somewhere with a bag of Skittles is not a capital crime.
    I can't help but think what might have happened if the races had been reversed. Would the shooter have been arrested? I know it means nothing, but it does make one think that what we think of as 'common sense' and 'rational' always has a lot of social/historical/racial and emotional baggage attached. I don't believe that race is irrelevant here.
    And I apologize for the 'corn-fed' comment. If I apply it to you, I must apply it to myself. And I like corn.

  9. #29
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    whatever his reasons, he shot and killed an unarmed minor. Horribly bad judgement on his part.
    I highly doubt that he is capable of distinguishing between a 17 year old and an 18 year old and one doesn't attack any differently than the other. It's a mostly arbitrary legal line.

    I'll agree, though, that if he is going to be a very overzealous neighborhood watch type, he should at least follow the rules.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Me thinks a manslaughter charge would be appropriate.
    Depending on the severity of the beating and realistic alternatives (both up in the air), negligent homicide or reckless endangerment might be more appropriate....he should (morally rather than legally speaking) definitly face some charge for creating a situation in which Martin would reasonably feel threatened and therefore (possibly, and ironically, in full compliance with the 'stand your ground' law) react in a way that apparently escalated to tragedy.

    Really, though, available information is incomplete and heavily biased.....I've pretty much been avoiding the story for the time being, waiting for more information to come out.

    As for the 'stand your ground' law....its unclear to me what the boundaries really are (and they may need to be tweaked), but I much prefer the concept to that of a 'duty to retreat' standard.

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