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  1. #11
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    Of course youth should be valued over extreme age.

    In most cases, young people do most of the work that keeps the world turning, and they're also capable of reproducing. We could say that changes with sick people, they aren't working as much or reproducing, but let's say a 40 year old who needs a new heart may already be a parent of a young child, while a 70 year old is merely a grandparent. The parent is more needed.

    Plus, we're going to have way too many old people on our hands here very shortly, and it disgusts me, because they're one hell of a fucking narcissistic generation as it is, they think everything is owed to them, and I'm not sure how that is going to play out in reality when there are more elderly than there are young.

    I say we have to let them die. Especially Dick Cheney for fuck's sake (though he probably was favored because he is Dick Cheney ).

  2. #12
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    By the way, I'm not for like ...killing...old people. I just want to clarify when I say let them die, I mean by reasonably natural causes.

    Even with my own grandfather, as much as I loved him and grieved when he died, I got over it with the knowledge that he had lived a long full life and he was getting very feeble and helpless in his dotage as he was approaching 80 (he was 80 when he died) and ...it was his time. It's the natural order of things for old people to die, and I would hate to be very old and be miserable because I was so old, which looked like what was happening to my grandpa who was always such a strong, proud man and looked younger than his age up until his early 70's.

    I think going to extreme lengths to preserve the elderly is wrong. It's against nature to prefer the old over the young. It's not okay.

  3. #13
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    If an old man can pay for a heart transplant, just let him buy it.
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  4. #14
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Of course youth should be valued over extreme age.

    In most cases, young people do most of the work that keeps the world turning, and they're also capable of reproducing. We could say that changes with sick people, they aren't working as much or reproducing, but let's say a 40 year old who needs a new heart may already be a parent of a young child, while a 70 year old is merely a grandparent. The parent is more needed.

    Plus, we're going to have way too many old people on our hands here very shortly, and it disgusts me, because they're one hell of a fucking narcissistic generation as it is, they think everything is owed to them, and I'm not sure how that is going to play out in reality when there are more elderly than there are young.

    I say we have to let them die. Especially Dick Cheney for fuck's sake (though he probably was favored because he is Dick Cheney ).
    If Cheney was receiving a 20-30 something year old heart, I'd freak. I mean, he'd better have received a heart that was closer to his age because if he token a heart that young, he sucked up 50 or so years that heart could of help someone else.

    I can understand the system, and I can understand that hearts are place locally first before nationally. But it really does make people think how old was the next couple of people in line (both locals and nationals) relative to Cheney.

    I mean, 5 heart attacks since age 37.

    Let's hope he finally has a change of heart.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Ultimately I'd like to see a reality emerge in which practical immortality exists, although I see that as having more to do with cultural awareness of choices and consequences and structural adjustments than simply advances in medicine. That no ones life ends before they're prepared for it.

    Although it perhaps belongs in the utopia thread rather than this one, I'd also like it if without express intent on the part of both partners than conception wouldnt be possible.

  6. #16
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think there should be any limit, who would set it and who would police it and how would that look? No, not entirely happy with the present limits set by scarcity of resources or market forces or personal disposable income and wealth, so wouldnt want any other limits.

    Although I do think that there's bound to be a point at which rich elites will be fit to possess and control power for longer because they can live longer than everyone else, pushing the boundaries of mortality away beyond that of the plebs.
    I think it would be deeply unfair if the rich could afford life extending heart transplants while the poor could not. Life itself should not have a monetary value on it. Just because you don't have as much money doesn't make your life less worthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Interesting moral dilemma . . . let's analyze this from both ends:


    Also, Dick Cheney doesn't deserve a heart transplant, and no it's not because of his age, it's because he's a war-profiting piece of shit. Let him die.
    I don't approve of his politics but I certainly don't wish him dead. His life has intrinsically the same value as anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Of course youth should be valued over extreme age.

    In most cases, young people do most of the work that keeps the world turning, and they're also capable of reproducing. We could say that changes with sick people, they aren't working as much or reproducing, but let's say a 40 year old who needs a new heart may already be a parent of a young child, while a 70 year old is merely a grandparent. The parent is more needed.

    Plus, we're going to have way too many old people on our hands here very shortly, and it disgusts me, because they're one hell of a fucking narcissistic generation as it is, they think everything is owed to them, and I'm not sure how that is going to play out in reality when there are more elderly than there are young.

    I say we have to let them die. Especially Dick Cheney for fuck's sake (though he probably was favored because he is Dick Cheney ).
    I agree that younger people are more valuable in the reproductive sense but older people aren't worthless either. They have the life experience and wisdom and can transmit that information to others. I also don't think you can deem an entire generation as narcissistic, just certain individuals.

    I've also wondered if Dick Cheney was favored in receiving a heart because of his fame. I don't think so from reading the article but I wonder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post

    Let's hope he finally has a change of heart.
    Pun intended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Ultimately I'd like to see a reality emerge in which practical immortality exists, although I see that as having more to do with cultural awareness of choices and consequences and structural adjustments than simply advances in medicine. That no ones life ends before they're prepared for it.

    Although it perhaps belongs in the utopia thread rather than this one, I'd also like it if without express intent on the part of both partners than conception wouldnt be possible.
    This is also my vision of a utopia.
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  7. #17
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Pun intended?
    Definitely!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I don't approve of his politics but I certainly don't wish him dead. His life has intrinsically the same value as anyone else.
    I disagree, the value of life isn't something that, to me anyway, exists on a completely equal leveling. There are no true intrinsic values, rather to value something is a subjective act in of itself, one of which varies from the perspective of each individual. Now granted, even though the collective values of individuals in a society can produce dangerous results (such as many not valuing a life when it would seem unfair to do so), it can allow us to differentiate between what individuals may be of worth, and which may not be of worth to us. We don't value the destructive murderer, so we care less for the value of his life and his well being. However, I think it would be best then only to discriminate against the value of others based on some form of merit concerning their charachter and actions; that is how they values others, what they do, how they do it, and everything else in-between needs to be taken into full account before any true measurement can be accessed. Thus those like Cheney, of whom are responsible for causing great harm for self-profit (and thus being antithetical to a majority of others) can be valued lessed, and therefore deserving of any ill fate that befalls them. However, even though people may be entitled to devalue such a person, I do think that allowing other individuals to value that bad person anyway would be permissable, considering that to negate the freedom of ones compassionate feelings is nothing short of opression. And of course, even some villains deserve mercy and forgivness once in a while (if they haven't gone past some sort of moral even horizen anyway).

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I don't believe there should be an age limit, but if you've ever shot someone in the face, you should never get a new organ.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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