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  1. #1

    Default Try and persuade me that...

    So, in this thread you choose something politics, history and/or current events related to post a comment about with the theme of "try and persuade me that..." then you can post your own topical "try and presuade me that..." once you have replied. Answer a question, pose a question.

    I'll start.

    Try and persuade me that libertarianism isnt anything other than a convenient ideology for rich people, encouraging other people to pity or value them.

  2. #2
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    Most of its followers don't seem particularly rich and you can assume on some level that any ideology embraced by a group of people usually ends up benefitting that group of people in some way.

    Persuade me that the liberation of black people all over the world in the 50s 60s and 70s was nothing but a coincidence and the decolinization of Africa, the integration of black people into mainstream society in Europe, and the aquirement of full rights by black people in America just "happened" in the same decade..

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    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    isn't that very phrasing generally an indication that the person in question has already made up their mind?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There are all kinds of libertarians. Some have little to do with corporate protectionism. Some are just poor old bearded guys in log cabins who'd love to shoot you with rocksalt if you drink out of their watering hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    So, in this thread you choose something politics, history and/or current events related to post a comment about with the theme of "try and persuade me that..." then you can post your own topical "try and presuade me that..." once you have replied. Answer a question, pose a question.
    I'll start.
    Try and persuade me that libertarianism isnt anything other than a convenient ideology for rich people, encouraging other people to pity or value them.
    people are motivated by self interest. if you allow them to pursue their own self interest, in a system where they have the opportunity to engage in mutually beneficial arrangements and outlaw things like stealing, violence, black mail etc (okay, easier said than done, but we're talking about ideally here) productivity will increase, good will become more accessible and lower costs and the standard of living will increase dramatically in a very short amount of time (and continually). it's not a difficult concept
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    people are motivated by self interest. if you allow them to pursue their own self interest, in a system where they have the opportunity to engage in mutually beneficial arrangements and outlaw things like stealing, violence, black mail etc (okay, easier said than done, but we're talking about ideally here) productivity will increase, good will become more accessible and lower costs and the standard of living will increase dramatically in a very short amount of time (and continually). it's not a difficult concept
    Persuade me as to why I should believe in idealism over pragmatism.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
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    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Persuade me as to why I should believe in idealism over pragmatism.
    no, you persuade me as to why I should believe in idealism over pragmatism
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    isn't that very phrasing generally an indication that the person in question has already made up their mind?
    I will persuade you that this is unimportant--with logic and/or reason. My logic and/or reason is that this is still an interesting exercise if we actually keep an open mind about it, and we've got the potential to learn something about our own views or the opposing views.

    However, I'm generally not a fan of the whole "here's my stance; if you can't prove me wrong, then I am right and you are wrong" mentality, though (not that that's what the OP is going for).



    Try and persuade me that I ought not to keep an ear to reality, that I should not consult with the world at large in order to refine my ideas, that I should reject opinions contrary to my own without giving them much conscious thought.

    Try and persuade me that being disagreeable is a better tactic than being agreeable.

    I have already thought of arguments and persuasions for these things (that is, I've played devil's advocate), but I'm interested to hear what others come up with.

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    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Try and persuade me that I ought not to keep an ear to reality, that I should not consult with the world at large in order to refine my ideas, that I should reject opinions contrary to my own without giving them much conscious thought.

    Try and persuade me that being disagreeable is a better tactic than being agreeable.

    I have already thought of arguments and persuasions for these things (that is, I've played devil's advocate), but I'm interested to hear what others come up with.
    well... if the concept of collective unconscious is actually valid this makes for an easier argument because in that case even if you are sticking to your own opinions you are, in a way, considering everyone's opinions by considering your own opinion and therefore paying attention to others' opinions is unnecessary because you've already subconsciously considered them!

    or maybe just listening to polonius and being true to thine own self and all of that... after all, if we all took survey of everyone elses' opinions before making our own where would the variety of opinions that makes human intellectual life vibrant and varied be?

    ** try to convince me that tofu is actually edible
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    well... if the concept of collective unconscious is actually valid this makes for an easier argument because in that case even if you are sticking to your own opinions you are, in a way, considering everyone's opinions by considering your own opinion and therefore paying attention to others' opinions is unnecessary because you've already subconsciously considered them!
    Haha, I like this one.

    I would think that this is what the people who rationalize their own worldviews want to think. It's so convenient to hold a belief without actually having to thoroughly test it--that the collective unconscious, God, or your own high-and-mighty objectivity is enough. My belief is that all of those things, in reality, are but your own perception.

    or maybe just listening to polonius and being true to thine own self and all of that... after all, if we all took survey of everyone elses' opinions before making our own where would the variety of opinions that makes human intellectual life vibrant and varied be?
    True. I've actually often thought to myself--"Even if I can see the merits of multiple points of view, this world needs me to have my own opinions and to assert them." And I guess I do have a few rigid opinions to assert. (But they're pretty general opinions.)

    Like the one about open-mindedness. My opinion that we all ought to strive to have an open mind, to question our own beliefs and shatter our worldview and rebuild it from time to time; others are convinced that good, solid determination and belief will get us further. I suppose it takes all kinds to make a world go around, but I can't help but feel a strong distaste for a "my way or the highway," "king of the hill" mentality, especially when it manifests as sidestepping counterarguments, contrary information, and cognitive dissonance.

    It seems destructive in the long term and immature overall--though I may be able to be persuaded otherwise.

    One of my counterarguments to my own Thing would be: well, shit; if you're pretty well certain that you're right, then gathering a bunch more information will just slow you down. Someone try to convince me otherwise.

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