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Thread: Gender quotas

  1. #21
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I hate those parties where it's nothing but a sausage fest.
    I hate them too, goddammit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I hate those parties where it's nothing but a sausage fest.
    Too much meat is unhealthy. Try some juicy fruit!

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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I think they're as good as men, but they get pregnant. That said, if I had to choose between a man and a woman, both in a fertile age, and everything else being equal, I'd choose a man. I'm confident that a lot of employers think the same way. That said, I think quotas could make the situation more balanced. But it should be done in a reasonable way. A 50% quota would be sick.
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    It might not be bad as an impetus to break established biases. Women do very well in small businesses. This suggest to me that the alpha tendencies favored by the old boy's club might not the only way to excel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I think they're as good as men, but they get pregnant. That said, if I had to choose between a man and a woman, both in a fertile age, and everything else being equal, I'd choose a man. I'm confident that a lot of employers think the same way. That said, I think quotas could make the situation more balanced. But it should be done in a reasonable way. A 50% quota would be sick.
    I like your honesty.
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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Another thing: It sounds quite condescending when you say that women don't know what they really want - because that is what you are saying. You're saying that you know better, and you're arguing from the point that job types should be roughly fifty-fifty of each gender, which assumes that there are no inherent differences between men and women that will make them prefer some careers over others, or make it more difficult for them to perform as well as the opposite gender in the same position - like a dwarf running against Hussain Bolt.

    Nothing is holding women back. It's not like applications are automatically shoved into an incinerator if it says "Gender: Female". Those who want to be leaders will adapt to the environment and prove to the people responsible for the decision that they are indeed capable. They won't let others stereotype them into the kind of woman who will take off 3 months to be with her newborn, because they know that that is completely and utterly unacceptable on the executive tier. Observe the Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel. She should be the role-model for any woman who has ambitions to be a leader.
    Many women don't know what they really want. Many men don't know either. Many people allow themselves to be too much swayed by the expectations of parents/family (grow up to be a ______ just like your father), or of the broader society. They feel obligations, take what appears to be the path of least resistance, sometimes just do what has to be done to pay the bills and put food on the table. One way or another, they realize all too late what they really wanted out of life. Whether they could have achieved it is another matter, but you can't achieve your dream if you don't even know what it is.

    There are inherent differences between men and women, but these have far less influence on career choices than the subtle messages most of us grow up with that limit our horizons for no good reason.

    As for examples of female leadership, I would choose Golda Meir instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I think they're as good as men, but they get pregnant. That said, if I had to choose between a man and a woman, both in a fertile age, and everything else being equal, I'd choose a man.
    Your point???
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your point???
    In Brazil this means at least 4 months away from work, each time they get pregnant.
    They get nausea, they gain weight, and then they have to worry about breastfeeding whenever the baby wants.
    To cut a long story, the productivity is probably gonna be affected for more than those 4 months.
    Last edited by Rasofy; 03-20-2012 at 10:48 PM. Reason: (I mean, the business' productivity)
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
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  8. #28
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    In Brazil this means at least 4 months away from work, each time they get pregnant.
    They get nausea, they gain weight, and then they have to worry about breastfeeding whenever the baby wants.
    To cut a long story, the productivity is probably gonna be affected for more than those 4 months.
    Interesting. I suppose some things - even maternal biology - are just different in Brazil. Some women I work with have had kids, with no real impact on daily productivity, and far less missed work, unless medical complications arise. The ones who breastfeed pump milk at breaks or lunch. I also have male colleagues who took time off for newborns. Mothers need a period of physical recovery, but rarely 4 months, and if newborn care is shared by mother and father, it becomes a parents' issue rather than a women's issue, as it should be.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Now, in what universe does having these two thoughts simultaneously ever make sense? Is this the doublethink thread again? If there are potentially competent people being passed up on the basis of gender alone, then on what grounds can you say that quotas are "dumb" because "clearly" there aren't enough competent people to fill them?
    It's not double-thinking and it makes sense, because the second thought generates the first. Because women applications are often not taken seriously, they tend to not bother trying and instead opt for less ambitious jobs; therefore there are less of them on the “market”.
    I never said women on average couldn't be as competent as men. I do not know the answer to this. But the message society relays to women is “Be pretty and find yourself a dull, unambitious job”. As long as this message exists, how can we expect them to strive for more?

    For instance, if 10 men and 2 women apply to a job, there's statistically a good chance that the best person for the job will be one of the men. Hence why choosing one of the women to fill up quotas is dumb, unless of course she is indeed the best person for the job, which again is possible but not statistically likely.
    Should we want true parity, these numbers first need to changed to 6 men and 6 women. Or do you believe this is already the case? I do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Without what "first part?" The part about "guys taking care of everything?" Is that what you're talking about?
    Yes. It's pointless to have quotas as long as the collective idea that “guys are the ones who manage the important stuff” exists. Because, as stated by others, it will do nothing for the root of the issue. By the way, when I say "collective" idea I'm including women as well.
    And yes, I wish this idea would stop exist.

  10. #30
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    I'm generally against gender quotas. I hate the thought of getting hired because of my gender rather than because of my expertise.
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