User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Fixing Mexico?

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Are you opting for genocide? There's no way to decrease demand any other way for now ;P

  2. #12
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    We're never going to "fix" Mexico, because we lack the political will to address issues domestically that are contributing to a lot of the problems down there. Namely, tighter gun control laws here in the States. This is a much greater problem than any drug money when 70% of all confiscated weapons are directly traceable back to the US.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  3. #13
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    Reform NAFTA and open the border.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert
    Wordpress: http://introvertadventures.wordpress.com/

  4. #14
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    We're never going to "fix" Mexico, because we lack the political will to address issues domestically that are contributing to a lot of the problems down there. Namely, tighter gun control laws here in the States. This is a much greater problem than any drug money when 70% of all confiscated weapons are directly traceable back to the US.
    And the millions of soviet bloc weapons you can still buy cheaply and easily ship to mexico?
    Yes, they prefer our weapons. However the most used gun in the world was and is the AK47. Do you have any idea how many of those the soviet union MADE? Or how easy it is to buy them? Getting them to mexico wouldn't be hard either.
    Don't blame America's domestic issues for Mexico's problems. Mexico has the same problems that most of the 3rd world has - and no, the 3rd world isn't solely our fault.

    America (as it is) could never reform or fix Mexico.
    but... people DO call us imperialists all the time; so fine! How about it? Meet the American Empire. First annexation? Mexico. Canada to follow.

    To fix Mexico;

    You would have to wage a small-scale war - actually, scratch that, you would have to wage outright war against the drug cartels and large portions of the Mexican military.

    You would have to depose the majority of their government bureaucracy.
    (Seriously. Kill it with fire. The corruption is so bad it's just disgusting)

    Perform summary execution of any captured military/gang members, along with the most corrupt officials. Employment of US Special Forces in Counter-Insurgency would be a must.

    Make bribery and corruption a capital offence, and enforce it as such. (Preferably something public. People remember that sort of thing)

    Find a suitable leader from among the people (it would have to be someone highly idealistic - a Mexican Che Guevara, so to speak) to take charge of Mexico. We've seen that strong central leadership can do great things for a country - if you FOUND one such leader and took away all obstacles, I think you'd be amazed at how different the country would be.

    Invest in the new Mexico. Make their country's financial future so intertwined with the US that they WANT to be on good terms with us.

    If you managed to cleanse the old, install a government that the Mexican people could believe in, and raise their standard of living/their country's status overall, you truly COULD change Mexico.

    But that's the only way you would.

    Don't hate me too much. I just love love love love love playing devil's advocate. ^_______^

  5. #15
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    And the millions of soviet bloc weapons you can still buy cheaply and easily ship to mexico?
    Yes, they prefer our weapons. However the most used gun in the world was and is the AK47. Do you have any idea how many of those the soviet union MADE? Or how easy it is to buy them? Getting them to mexico wouldn't be hard either.
    Don't blame America's domestic issues for Mexico's problems. Mexico has the same problems that most of the 3rd world has - and no, the 3rd world isn't solely our fault.
    Yeah, that's all very interesting. While there are a variety of places that these cartels could be getting these guns from, doesn't change the fact that they're getting them from us. While there are without questions pre-existing issues concerning rule of law in Mexico, tens of thousands of American guns flowing across the border due to non-existant gun control in the States is only exacerbating those problems. I mean, do you have any evidence that suggests these weapons are coming from anywhere else? You are aware that we produce AK's in the States as well, right?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  6. #16
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    While there are without questions pre-existing issues concerning rule of law in Mexico, tens of thousands of American guns flowing across the border due to non-existant gun control in the States is only exacerbating those problems.
    So its the fault of our gun laws.... not the fault of our drug prohibition driving drug values up and creating the profit incentive which established the modern international narcotics market as we know it.

    Maybe we should be more concerned with the people using the guns, than we should the guns themselves.

    There are better ways of addressing this problem that would a) address the root of the drug war (not just its violent symptoms) and b) not needlessly affect American firearms enthusiasts.

    The problem you are talking about is the straw purchase of weapons, where a third party buys a firearm on behalf of a criminal party that can't do so (or otherwise would prefer not to do so).

    You would have to enact sweeping legislation that was VERY restrictive in order to curtail these kind of purchases.

    The gun lobby is too powerful and firearms enthusiasts too numerous for the legislation required to ever pass.

    Its amazing to me the amount of traction gun control has...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Yeah, that's all very interesting. While there are a variety of places that these cartels could be getting these guns from, doesn't change the fact that they're getting them from us. While there are without questions pre-existing issues concerning rule of law in Mexico, tens of thousands of American guns flowing across the border due to non-existant gun control in the States is only exacerbating those problems. I mean, do you have any evidence that suggests these weapons are coming from anywhere else? You are aware that we produce AK's in the States as well, right?
    Please read this.
    http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/Small_Arms_Latin_America.pdf
    "Other major suppliers [besides the US] to Latin America that year [2005] included Belgium, the Czech Republic, Germany, Israel, Italy, Russia, South Africa, and Spain."

    "Venezuela also made a controversial purchase of 100,000 AK-47s worth about $4 million from Russia that year [2005], in a deal that included co-production rights."


  8. #18
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Please read this.
    http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/Small_Arms_Latin_America.pdf
    "Other major suppliers [besides the US] to Latin America that year [2005] included Belgium, the Czech Republic, Germany, Israel, Italy, Russia, South Africa, and Spain."

    "Venezuela also made a controversial purchase of 100,000 AK-47s worth about $4 million from Russia that year [2005], in a deal that included co-production rights."

    What's fascinating to me is that in order to get to that passage you had to skip right on past the paragraph immediately before that read:

    The same 2005 data reveals that the vast majority of the $29 million worth of U.S. small arms flowing to
    South America went to Colombia. Mexico imported $10 million worth, almost as much as all the small arms that Central America and the Caribbean imported combined.
    From the same study:

    The U.S.-Mexican border is also a central route through which illicit small arms enter Latin America. A study released by the Mexican government suggests that as many as 2,000 guns are crossing the U.S.-Mexico border daily. As in Colombia, these guns are fuelling an arms race, in this case between Mexican drug cartels, costing the lives of 4,000 people in 18 months.
    Additionally

    Mexico City and Washington’s close collaboration on the treaty is ironic, given that the flow of guns from the United States to Mexico remains an enormous problem and a source of growing tension
    I'm guessing you had to go with the irrelevant Venezuela quote because damn near every reference to Mexico in that study referred to the flow of arms to that country from the United States. We should try this again when you've learned to read.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  9. #19
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    160

    Default

    I can read quite well; you're just forgetting what point I was refuting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I mean, do you have any evidence that suggests these weapons are coming from anywhere else? You are aware that we produce AK's in the States as well, right?
    The point was to demonstrate that they DO acquire weaponry from sources other than the US. Which that study did demonstrate. Whether they get weapons from us was never a question, and whether we were the main supplier wasn't a point I denied or argued.

    The point is there are other significant suppliers of weapons in the region now, and that's WHEN the most convenient supplier is the U.S.

    Basic Economics; If we outlawed guns here in the U.S. they would simply increase their imports from their other existing suppliers. Basic supply and demand. All you would do is make their guns somewhat more expensive to buy, which would then be passed on to the consumer in slightly higher drug prices.

    /argument

  10. #20
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    I can read quite well; you're just forgetting what point I was refuting.



    The point was to demonstrate that they DO acquire weaponry from sources other than the US. Which that study did demonstrate. Whether they get weapons from us was never a question, and whether we were the main supplier wasn't a point I denied or argued.

    The point is there are other significant suppliers of weapons in the region now, and that's WHEN the most convenient supplier is the U.S.

    Basic Economics; If we outlawed guns here in the U.S. they would simply increase their imports from their other existing suppliers. Basic supply and demand. All you would do is make their guns somewhat more expensive to buy, which would then be passed on to the consumer in slightly higher drug prices.

    /argument
    I disagree with you. Limiting the gun supply to Mexico from the US would make a difference for a couple of reasons.

    First, the range of sophistication amongst the various organized crime organizations in Mexico means that the demand for weapons is likely to be more elastic than your argument suggest you believe it is. While it's possible to get either former Soviet weapons or weapons from neighboring countries in the region, they clearly are not as cheap nor as accessible as American arms are, or these gangs wouldnt prefer US weapons so overwhelmingly. Because we're the largest supplier, any increase in price or decline in supply is going to have a moderating effect on the violence in Mexico. Creating a barrier to entry is going to impact the number players in the game, which hopefully means less violence or at the very least a qualitative difference in the violence (i.e., more knife-related crimes than shootings, which is admittedly still not great, but is an improvement).

    Second, even if you're correct and criminals simply switch suppliers there's still going to be a disruption which could be used to the advantage of policy makers. You make it seem as though switching arms suppliers is as easy as going from Walmart to Target. It's not. In practice, there's going to be a lag as these crime organizations identify and secure new partners. Assuming the gun control measure is not done in an ad hoc fashion, policy makers will have gained breathing room to implement additional measures that could again have a long-term moderating impact on the violence in Mexico. In west Africa, for instance, they've had a great deal of success coming back from the violence they experienced in the mid-90s because disarmament efforts were performed in conjunction with active efforts to demobilize and reintegrate combatants back into society. It's also important to note that these disarmament efforts were both regional and state-by-state. It sounds touchy-feely, but these efforts have transformed West Africa into one of the most stable areas on the continent.

    My point is that there is something we can do here. It's our money and our weapons that are contributing to Mexico being the hell hole that it is. Yeah, it is possible that tighter gun control laws here in the States will make absolutely no difference, but I don't really buy into the idea. Neither does the Mexican government who has called repeatedly for ANY sort of measure to be taken in that regard. All I'm saying is that some of this is our mess, it wouldn't take much to correct our part in it, so we should. Gun control in the US is by no means a silver bullet, but it's a start, and at the very least would help us to no longer be a part of the problem.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

Similar Threads

  1. someone to type and fix relations with
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-15-2009, 02:55 PM
  2. [Tri] Enneagram tri-fix
    By mysterio in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-13-2009, 06:30 PM
  3. [MBTItm] create a crisis, then fix it
    By INTJMom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-26-2008, 09:58 PM
  4. Server Fixed
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-06-2008, 06:19 PM
  5. I need a sci-fi fix
    By Mycroft in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-05-2008, 10:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO