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  1. #61
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    I know, but still many people will suffer because of greediness. When you allow people to control factors of production and resources without any sort of regulation, things could get ugly because many are focused more on profit rather than serving other people.
    no they wouldn't. a (effective) libertarian society has laws to protect people from things like embezzlement, stealing etc. "my right to swing my arms ends where my neighbor's nose begins"

    other than that
    - there is incentive to be friendly and treat customers well
    - there is incentive to have low prices, especially on life necessities
    - there is incentive to treat employees well, pay them well and provide them with benefits
    - if you are willing to work hard and learn in a Libertarian society, there are plenty of options and opportunities available to you
    - people would have more excess wealth to give to people as they saw fit (and it would be used more efficiently than high taxes)

    ...who exactly is suffering from "greed"? that's kind of a vague question. to me, greed is pursuit of wealth to the detriment of others. for instance, stealing from people is greed, making money through scams, lies and deception is greed but in a libertarian society, these types of actions are punished
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  2. #62
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Sorry but I have no time to waste with theses kind of stupid questions.
    in his defense, it's less stupid than all of the opposition who are too stupid to ask this question in the first place?
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    no they wouldn't. a (effective) libertarian society has laws to protect people from things like embezzlement, stealing etc. "my right to swing my arms ends where my neighbor's nose begins"

    other than that
    - there is incentive to be friendly and treat customers well
    - there is incentive to have low prices, especially on life necessities
    - there is incentive to treat employees well, pay them well and provide them with benefits
    - if you are willing to work hard and learn in a Libertarian society, there are plenty of options and opportunities available to you
    - people would have more excess wealth to give to people as they saw fit (and it would be used more efficiently than high taxes)

    ...who exactly is suffering from "greed"? that's kind of a vague question. to me, greed is pursuit of wealth to the detriment of others. for instance, stealing from people is greed, making money through scams, lies and deception is greed but in a libertarian society, these types of actions are punished
    in a stable society i would agree with you. but i think that in a technological society, the value of creative destruction demands certain safety nets - as investments and job oppertunities in existing fields are lost because of rising new tools, and new fields open up, we need some way of helping people survive the transition and re-specialization, or otherwise your going to loose the consumer markets for the new tools and slow down a rather positive process.

    however, i would venture that we need more open platforms for those safety nets... so basically, i suppose what i want is the privtazation of welfare.

  4. #64
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    in a stable society i would agree with you. but i think that in a technological society, the value of creative destruction demands certain safety nets - as investments and job oppertunities in existing fields are lost because of rising new tools, and new fields open up, we need some way of helping people survive the transition and re-specialization, or otherwise your going to loose the consumer markets for the new tools and slow down a rather positive process.
    however, i would venture that we need more open platforms for those safety nets... so basically, i suppose what i want is the privtazation of welfare.
    the solution is the school needs to become
    - much more pragmatic
    - something either on-going or that someone goes back and forth between. I think there should be "update" colleges for those working in high dynamic fields that need frequent updates and new information to perform well in their fields. it is no longer possible to go to school, get a job, set down a career path and never have to learn anything again. investors and entrepreneurs have been doing this for centuries, it's time every else caught up
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    the solution is the school needs to become
    - much more pragmatic
    - something either on-going or that someone goes back and forth between. I think there should be "update" colleges for those working in high dynamic fields that need frequent updates and new information to perform well in their fields. it is no longer possible to go to school, get a job, set down a career path and never have to learn anything again. investors and entrepreneurs have been doing this for centuries, it's time every else caught up
    everyone else has a mortgage/rent to pay next month and food for their kids. its not that they don't want to take a break and study something new, it's that most of them can't.

    that's why the safety net does need to financial in nature. you can't escape that. but i have no problem with the idea that studying something new might be a requirement in order to get that safety net. actually that's pretty good - we'll give you unemployment only if you study something new to expand your possible professions.

  6. #66
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    everyone else has a mortgage/rent to pay next month and food for their kids. its not that they don't want to take a break and study something new, it's that most of them can't.
    that's why the safety net does need to financial in nature. you can't escape that. but i have no problem with the idea that studying something new might be a requirement in order to get that safety net. actually that's pretty good - we'll give you unemployment only if you study something new to expand your possible professions.
    I'm not suggesting they go back to college for 4 years and leave their job for that time (personally I think going through college without a job as it is is stupid enough lol) I'm suggesting they take time out of their work day to do so. maybe 30-40 hours a week of work and then 10 hours or so a week of independent research or time with an institution like I mentioned in my last post. people want to continue to have this delusion that they can just go to college, get a job and put everything on autopilot and never have to innovate/learn new skills again. that just isn't possible anymore and people need to accept this
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm not suggesting they go back to college for 4 years and leave their job for that time (personally I think going through college without a job as it is is stupid enough lol) I'm suggesting they take time out of their work day to do so. maybe 30-40 hours a week of work and then 10 hours or so a week of independent research or time with an institution like I mentioned in my last post. people want to continue to have this delusion that they can just go to college, get a job and put everything on autopilot and never have to innovate/learn new skills again. that just isn't possible anymore and people need to accept this
    ok, but that doesn't address the issue i spoke of - creative destruction leading to waves of unemployment.

  8. #68
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ok, but that doesn't address the issue i spoke of - creative destruction leading to waves of unemployment.
    not if
    - educational infrastructures like the ones I've mentioned are in place
    and
    - people pursue more than one stream of income at a time (the average investor for instance has about 6 investments generating capital at one time. for those in internet business, the norm is to have more than that many campaigns running at one time)
    - which lead to my next point that work is going to need to get more project oriented than 9-5, 40 hours a week, etc.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    not if
    - educational infrastructures like the ones I've mentioned are in place
    that would work if we where able to predict the creative destruction, the very nature of it is that it's usually unpredictable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - people pursue more than one stream of income at a time (the average investor for instance has about 6 investments generating capital at one time. for those in internet business, the norm is to have more than that many campaigns running at one time)
    with this i agree - this is why full-employment benefits relatively to part-time employment benefits, currently enforced by most governments, have to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - which lead to my next point that work is going to need to get more project oriented than 9-5, 40 hours a week, etc.
    that's fine for development and etertainment, but just doesn't work in the service industry.

  10. #70
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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