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  1. #21
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Regardless of foreign policy, I like to see that people are being exposed to these horrors. Maybe military intervention isn't the answer, or focusing on the capture of one bad guy, but philanthropy can go a long way in removing a portion of people from living in these sorts of hells. The more people that become aware of how bad it is in places like this region of Africa, the more support it can garner in its various forms.

  2. #22
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Regardless of foreign policy, I like to see that people are being exposed to these horrors. Maybe military intervention isn't the answer, or focusing on the capture of one bad guy, but philanthropy can go a long way in removing a portion of people from living in these sorts of hells. The more people that become aware of how bad it is in places like this region of Africa, the more support it can garner in its various forms.
    This is just the "something is better than nothing" fallacy I posted above.

    Giving money actually hurts them.

    The world has been pumping billions of dollars into Africa for decades and it isn't helping anything.

    The people have become absurdly dependent. Locals my friend worked with didn't have the forethought to even bring a banana for lunch and were always asking for a free lunch. These were paid and working people, but the mentality of dependency is still there.

    On the larger scale a lot of aid goes to corrupt dictators before it gets disseminated to the people. Enriching the dictator and forcing the people to depend on the dictator.

    By removing ourselves from the equation we could make space for capitalism and self-sustaining government to succeed.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #23
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I can see this being an issue. I'm not advocating the way things have been handled necessarily, however I'm not convinced turning a blind eye to it is an ethical option or one to be considered. I also don't think the rhetoric of "focusing on our problems at home" as somehow benefiting countries held hostage under an oppressive regime is sufficient either. Shit is a mess. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

  4. #24
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Sigh. We have more important matters at hand, like the glaring problems in our own countries.

  5. #25
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    See the problem there is, no one cares about Canada.

    :P jk

  6. #26
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    That's fine, but there's only so much one can get across with a "short and punchy" video. I watched this thinking of it more as a documentary, rather than a blurb. I thought everything that the video showed was fitting, and made the story more relevant to people that are otherwise withdrawn and removed from these issues happening in a continent that doesn't get much attention from your typical American or anyone else living in a cushy environment. I have a short attention span myself, but the point is that this mini-documentary is to be judged on its message and the issues that it brings to light, not the production value. I'm seeing it circulating pretty rapidly just within my facebook friends/acquaintances. I assume it's doing the same outside of my immediate circle. If people are watching it and posting it, others will too. Not to mention the video, but the time we've spent discussing it, think of all the chatter we could have created on vent and all the new threads and posts we could have made! Time is precious.
    tl;dr

  7. #27
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I had a friend who was in Uganda with an aid organization last year. After six months his view on foreign aid and assistance was simple:

    Helping hurts.

    Seriously, we need to stop with the savior complex and focus on changing our own behavior that negatively affects other countries and destabilizes them. Ending farm subsidies would be a great start.

    Killing one man might bring about justice. But, it won't help anyone in Uganda especially since he hasn't been active since 2006.



    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...-lra?page=show
    Your friend is going through the normal stages of reverse-culture shock that appears when people come back to the Western world after spending a year hands-on helping in a developing country, which lots of people have done (myself included).

    Inevitably, these people's opinions filter out into the same ratios as the general Western population that hasn't seen with their own eyes, though perhaps your friend, like me and others who have lived there, take our stances with a more informed opinion.

    Foreign aid to Africa is a completely different complex system than a dude committing atrocities that affect children. Don't get too existential about it. Sometimes the easy answer is the easy answer.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #28
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    They look so unnatural holding weapons that it actually makes me uncomfortable to look at it.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I can see this being an issue. I'm not advocating the way things have been handled necessarily, however I'm not convinced turning a blind eye to it is an ethical option or one to be considered. I also don't think the rhetoric of "focusing on our problems at home" as somehow benefiting countries held hostage under an oppressive regime is sufficient either. Shit is a mess. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    Who said anything about turning a blind eye? Are people forced to choose one extreme or the other? Give lots of money or completely ignore it?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Who said anything about turning a blind eye? Are people forced to choose one extreme or the other? Give lots of money or completely ignore it?
    He did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I had a friend who was in Uganda with an aid organization last year. After six months his view on foreign aid and assistance was simple:

    Helping hurts.

    Seriously, we need to stop with the savior complex and focus on changing our own behavior that negatively affects other countries and destabilizes them.

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