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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    What I'm hearing in the first part of your argument is "The system is broken, but instead of fixing it, we should punish all that benefit" If your ideal world is one where we are all suffering equally, then you should read up on your communism. You'd like that.
    A wide variety of cultures genders, or whatever other discriminating tool you want to use to divide people is never going to change the income of the workplace. That is derived only from work ethic. I make no statement on which is superior. Only that race alone is not a factor. You're saying that based only on race, you can determine a workplace output, congratulations, you're a racist. So far I've not seen any credible information regarding the subject of workplace diversity and output, so I have go only on your statements, which are quite naive to say the least.
    No, you are mistaken. The world isn't broken, it is as it is. People are always going to serve their own agendas and those agendas aren't always self serving but they usually are. As a result, people are always going to be in conflict and they are going to create systems to exploit power in a way to serve their agenda. I'm not some stupid idealist. I don't sit around pretending that Ayn Rand or Karl Marx know shit about the nature of the world or can even utilize common sense to understand their ideologies are completely useless since not everybody has an agenda which correlates with how they believed the world should function. There will never be a unanimous communistic or anarchistic world, so dreaming of such things is a waste of time.

    Also, if you had actually read what I had typed then you would have noticed I never said that race alone can determine a work output. I used the words, "Chances are" to get around declaring such a racist statement. And I"m happy to see you continue to ignore that I have declared that race alone is not diversity. Seriously, get over yourself. You are jumping to more assumptions about what I think than a frog jumps lily pads. And I said awhile back that I would get you the actual sources. It might help you to know where I am coming from if you read more than one sentence in my posts.

    It seems that we are derailing the thread from it's intent, so if you wish to continue this, perhaps a new thread would be the proper arena.
    This is actually well within topic. This a thread about perceived persecution. I'm enjoying your reaction immensely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  2. #72
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    No, you are mistaken. The world isn't broken, it is as it is. People are always going to serve their own agendas and those agendas aren't always self serving but they usually are. As a result, people are always going to be in conflict and they are going to create systems to exploit power in a way to serve their agenda. I'm not some stupid idealist. I don't sit around pretending that Ayn Rand or Karl Marx know shit about the nature of the world or can even utilize common sense to understand their ideologies are completely useless since not everybody has an agenda which correlates with how they believed the world should function. There will never be a unanimous communistic or anarchistic world, so dreaming of such things is a waste of time.

    Also, if you had actually read what I had typed then you would have noticed I never said that race alone can determine a work output. I used the words, "Chances are" to get around declaring such a racist statement. And I"m happy to see you continue to ignore that I have declared that race alone is not diversity. Seriously, get over yourself. You are jumping to more assumptions about what I think than a frog jumps lily pads. And I said awhile back that I would get you the actual sources. It might help you to know where I am coming from if you read more than one sentence in my posts.



    This is actually well within topic. This a thread about perceived persecution. I'm enjoying your reaction immensely.
    I agree with your statement about people serving their own agendas. I disagreed with your statement (or endorsement of policies) that we should impose systems that limit or promote somebody somebody based on race. It's nature is to further promote what it seeks to eliminate, no good can come of that. You said that "Studies have shown that diverse workplaces are economically superior to homogeneous ones", that seems to me like you're only citing race as the deciding factor here. It seems like you are having to eat your words, and are trying to weasel your way out of making a racist statement. I cannot jump to any assumptions that you haven't given me sufficient evidence to believe in.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  3. #73
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    Yes.. they do this in university.. they fill quotas for the admission of minorities and turn away people that are much more academically qualified. Who cares if diverse classrooms are important.. it is just as unfair to turn away a student for being of the ethnical majority than it is to turn them away for being of the minority.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    I agree with your statement about people serving their own agendas. I disagreed with your statement (or endorsement of policies) that we should impose systems that limit or promote somebody somebody based on race. It's nature is to further promote what it seeks to eliminate, no good can come of that.
    I only support anti discrimination policies because they serve my personal agenda and because I can't conceive of any better system. My agenda is to negate the effects of white privilege, which I find to be unethical. As I said, if you can suggest a system which doesn't utilize anti-discrimination policies but doesn't leave white privilege unchecked then I would be happy to hear it. The fact that you don't support anti-discrimination policies is because it discriminates against you, and you therefore find that to be unethical. That is your agenda. Our differing agendas result in this wonderful little perpetual conflict we have going. Being an agenda motivated debate, it seems rather pointless since neither side will ever concede their agenda, but I can't wait to see where it goes.

    You said that "Studies have shown that diverse workplace are economically superior to homogeneous ones", that seems to me like you're only citing race as the deciding factor here. It seems like you are having to eat your words, and are trying to weasel your way out of making a racist statement. I cannot jump to any assumptions that you haven't given me sufficient evidence to believe in.
    And then in the following posts, I said more than once, that I was defining diversity as more than race. That includes also gender, culture, religion, etc. Race is only one component of diversity. In fact, I believe this is the third time I have now said this to you. It would do me a great honor if you would actually read my posts fully before you reply to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #75
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I only support anti discrimination policies because they serve my personal agenda and because I can't conceive of any better system. My agenda is to negate the effects of white privilege, which I find to be unethical. As I said, if you can suggest a system which doesn't utilize anti-discrimination policies but doesn't leave white privilege unchecked then I would be happy to hear it. The fact that you don't support anti-discrimination policies is because it discriminates against you, and you therefore find that to be unethical. That is your agenda. Our differing agendas result in this wonderful little perpetual conflict we have going. Being an agenda motivated debate, it seems rather pointless since neither side will ever concede their agenda, but I can't wait to see where it goes.



    And then in the following posts, I said more than once, that I was defining diversity as more than race. That includes also gender, culture, religion, etc. Race is only one component of diversity. In fact, I believe this is the third time I have now said this to you. It would do me a great honor if you would actually read my posts fully before you reply to them.
    I would be interested to know what you define "White privileges" as. I'm not in a position to design a new system, however, by any means does that not allow me to spot a dysfunctional one.

    I believe I said this a few posts back; A wide variety of cultures, genders, or whatever other discriminating tool you want to use to divide people is never going to change the income of the workplace.
    So I would appreciate it if you read my posts, and refrained from the passive aggressive remarks, they add little to the debate.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  6. #76
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    I was toying with the idea of starting the Bananatrombones' Cheesy Moon Foundation (motto: it's cheese if you believe it's cheese).

    You are only required to believe the moon is made of cheese - and give me your money - and the Kingdom is thine! No thinking required, all contributions gratefully accepted.

    Problem is, I'm being persecuted for my cheesy beliefs, which came to me as a revelation one morning while emptying my bowels after a particularly spicy curry. I believe it was a King Prawn Bangalore Phall*.

    Eureka, thinks I. Cheese. Moon. Believe. Persecuted!


    * Recipe for the Holy Phall: King Prawn Bangalore Phall Recipe

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    I would be interested to know what you define "White privileges" as.
    Go back and read my old posts in this thread. I'm surprised you would come in guns blazing when you don't even know that much about my views.

    I'm not in a position to design a new system, however, by any means does that not allow me to spot a dysfunctional one.
    The world is imperfect. It never will be perfect as long as every individual has their own agenda. I explained all this already.

    I believe I said this a few posts back; A wide variety of cultures, genders, or whatever other discriminating tool you want to use to divide people is never going to change the income of the workplace.
    So I would appreciate it if you read my posts, and refrained from the passive aggressive remarks, they add little to the debate.
    I'm just being defensive. You are the one who has come in here attacking from the get go. As far as your statement, I'm not dividing people the way you seem to think I am. I believe a diverse work force, that which has people of different genders, races, culture, religions, etc. is economically superior to a homogeneous one. For example if we were talking about two work forces with the same goal in mind, then the one that has a Black Christian Women, White Muslim Male, and Asian Atheist Male has far better potential than a group of three white men from similar backgrounds. If you can't see why then I can't help you. However, I will provide the studies to support that claim. In fact, I will even PM them to you. Although since you seem to have it in your mind that I am quite wrong in that respect, I would love to see your evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    I was toying with the idea of starting the Bananatrombones' Cheesy Moon Foundation (motto: it's cheese if you believe it's cheese).

    You are only required to believe the moon is made of cheese - and give me your money - and the Kingdom is thine! No thinking required, all contributions gratefully accepted.

    Problem is, I'm being persecuted for my cheesy beliefs, which came to me as a revelation one morning while emptying my bowels after a particularly spicy curry. I believe it was a King Prawn Bangalore Phall.

    Eureka, thinks I. Cheese. Moon. Believe. Persecuted!
    Was that an attempt at fluff?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #79
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Was that an attempt at fluff?
    Hey, if that's what you want to believe.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Hey, if that's what you want to believe.
    I think the Flying Spaghetti Monster wouldn't find it to be very original. At the very least it seems quite inappropriate considering the tone of the discussion, but if that is how you want to express yourself, then it's a free forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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