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  1. #11
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    This is very interesting as the issue goes back to its beginnings in the Scopes Monkey Trial. The state decides what should be tested on in it's standardized tests. These tests can be changed and manipulated by a state so that a school does not have to teach a certain topic, or even make aware a certian topic if it does not want to. A few states in America have omitted evolution completely from their standardized tests used to judge the quality of schools and so most schools in that state do not teach evolution. Criticizers have proclaimed this devles deeply into the seperation of church and state, but there is nothing illegal about it. I highly doubt that there is any religious testing going on in state standardized tests.
    If I have not been misinformed, Creationism is taught freely in private or catholic schools, but public schools have no incentive to teach religion. Parents and church ccd are who teach that.
    Would it be fair to impose the teaching of evolutionary theory in schools?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Would it be fair to impose the teaching of evolutionary theory in schools?
    It should be mandatory to mention, as it is a generally accepted theory with vast amounts of scientific backing and empirical data. They do not have to go in-depth, but they should put it in their biology course. It is absolutely essential to biology. Schools should not be highly biased against evolution like the described. Churches and parents have the option of teaching creationism. Parents might be ignorant of evolution, or forget about it rendering them incapable of teaching it.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

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  3. #13
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Hm...a good point.

    I noticed that neither you nor Victor mentioned anything about homosexuality being taught in schools or forced on children at public events. Do you find that to be a form of persecuting religion?
    Last edited by Kiddo; 04-26-2008 at 09:15 PM. Reason: oops...got the words mixed up
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  4. #14
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Hm...a good point.

    I noticed that neither you nor Victor mentioned anything about homosexuality being taught in schools or forced on children at public events. Do you find that to be a form of religious persecution?
    I think that is up to the school's sex ed course. Some schools do not even have a sex ed course, preferring to leave it to the parents. Getting all the perspectives and probability of one perpective over the other is always helpful. I do not think it is a form of religious persecution, in most cases parents can apply for the child not to take sex ed. Schools would have to consent if it is against religious beliefs.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  5. #15
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    I think that is up to the school's sex ed course. Some schools do not even have a sex ed course, preferring to leave it to the parents. Getting all the perspectives and probability of one perpective over the other is always helpful. I do not think it is a form of religious persecution, in most cases parents can apply for the child not to take sex ed. Schools would have to consent if it is against religious beliefs.
    I think I messed my wording up, but an interesting response nonetheless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The problem with ID is that it's not a product of the scientific method.

    Basically, it is PARTLY just a criticism of evolution.

    It brings up potential problems with a type of evolution. That's not really a problem, that's fine.

    But then it goes further and says, "Since evolution has these flaws, and since we can't imagine how else this might have happened, we're just going to assume there was an intelligent designer."

    That's pure speculation, because it can't be tested.

    Even the name "Intelligent Design" specifically denotes the "faith" rather than scientific roots of the theory. Really, ID is just a Trojan Horse cloaked in science designed to introduce religious belief into the public school system.

    So I think what belongs in schools are any valid objections raised against evolution by ID... but without any of the speculative "ID" stuff tacked on the end that tries to assert God must be real. That's faith, not science.

    Note that evolutionists still challenge and experiment and criticize evolutionary theory. There are constantly changes and tweaks being made to it, based on what is discovered. And with high-end computer systems nowadays, much more can be modeled than 30 years ago, which can help test and confirm or deny what is assumed about evolution.

    ID can do none of this. So any speculations it makes about a creator figure belong in church.

    * * * *

    The homosexuality issue is a little more difficult. Secular thought is just that it's a behavior that needs to be treated with neutrality. Therefore it makes sense to discuss it (its causes, development, etc.) in school, and it needs to be treated neutrally.

    Because religious beliefs can label it as immoral, however, to allow it to be explored and treated without moral stigma is abhorrent to some religious people. And yet for them to suppress it is abhorrent to those who just see it as part of diversity and the human condition and something to deal with.

    Legally, homosexuality is not a crime... well, in general. (I suppose there are some towns who consider sodomy a punishable offense even within one's home... and obviously homosexual unions do not have the same privileges in almost any US state as hetero unions do.) But to create a spirit of oppression/prejudice can be.

    It makes things very interesting.

    As far as "forcing something on children" -- what exactly is being forced? No one is forced to be gay. And no one is forced to approve of homosexual behavior. They are simply taught that it's wrong to treat someone as less than human if they're gay.

    Are homosexuals morally on a par with drug dealers? Prostitutes? Murderers? Embezzlers? Adulterers? They aren't really guilty of any crimes -- or even share the same disregard for other people -- that the latter categories have. It's kind of hard to make a case for them being "criminals" without dragging in a moral/religious judgment.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I think I messed my wording up, but an interesting response nonetheless.
    This calls for imminent rewording.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Very nice post Jennifer.

    Okay, a question for Victor and Dark Razor.

    Would you guys be okay with religion taught as its own class, not within science classrooms?
    Yes, I would be ok with that.

  9. #19
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    So how come intelligent design/creationism can't be taught alongside evolutionary theory in public schools? How would that be the state imposing church?
    To put it simply...in order for something to be science, it needs a LOT of proof. There is a lot of proof for evolutionary "theory". How much proof is there for intelligent design/creationism? A book, the origins of which, we can't be entirely sure of.

    Anyone who knows my position knows I'm no fan of the religious community, but don't they deserve as much free speech as anyone else?
    Sure, but this is the same as saying that we should also teach that the sun and planets revolve around the earth...

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  10. #20
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriv View Post
    Creationism is taught freely in private or catholic schools, but public schools have no incentive to teach religion. Parents and church ccd are who teach that.
    I can say that Creationism is not taught in Catholic schools here mainly because Creationism is not a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church.

    V.

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