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  1. #121
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This seems a bit disingenuous to me. Sure, there "are" conservative colleges and universities where this is the case. I don't think they're anywhere near the majority of the academic community. And furthermore, I wouldn't want to work at any of those institutions since I am liberal minded myself, but the fact that I self-identify as a Christian would probably be a de facto demerit if I were to pursue a career in academia.
    Not all liberal colleges are created equal. Is it not wrong to persecute all academia for the misguided actions of a few colleges and universities? Is it not just as likely that you could be persecuted at a certain college for the kind of Christianity you practice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  2. #122
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I hope you are right.



    As you know, I believe freedom is largely an illusion. You want to give people the freedom to discriminate once again? Okay, let's allow communities to resegregate their schools (as some are trying to do in Oklahoma) and let's let bus companies make people of different races sit in the back of the bus.



    I'm only stating a fact. Racist groups support libertarian causes. Why? Because they fight anti discrimination legislation. Haven't you ever wondered why like over 90% of libertarians are white?
    Which racist groups, and which libertarian causes? Document those assertions or we're done here. For Christ's sake, the only woman ever to get an electoral vote in the U.S. was an LP vice presidential candidate. Russell Means (the actor and American Indian Movement leader) was one of two finalists for president. Frederick Douglass was a classical liberal. Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Janice Rogers Brown. The libertarian party of Costa Rica (Movemiento Libertario) is the most successful in the world (far moreso than the goofy-in-comparison U.S. LP). I don't think you have a leg to stand on here.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #123
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Not all liberal colleges are created equal. Is it not wrong to persecute all academia for the misguided actions of a few colleges and universities?
    "A few colleges and universities" is not what I'm talking about - it's entire academic communities that transcend single schools. And I'm not persecuting all academia any more than you are persecuting all Libertarians, I'm only stating my observations of many academics I've known or known about. I fully realize that there are plenty of schools and academics that don't conform to the trend I've noted. It's a milieu I would be stupid to ignore, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Is it not just as likely that you could be persecuted at a certain college for the kind of Christianity you practice?
    I don't think I understand what you're saying here. Are you asking if I would be persecuted at a conservative college for my liberal brand of Christianity? If so, the answer is "oh hell yes." This is one reason I decided not (yet) to pursue a career in academia, although it is what I have wanted to do since I was a young teen--I just don't think I have the chops to navigate a field in which I'll be dodging grenades from both sides. Or I didn't when I was 20 and a fresh college grad; I get choppier with each passing year, so I may still give it a shot.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #124
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You are crucified between authenticity and phoniness while I am crucified between amusement and boredom.

    So let me spell it out.

    For you it is good to be authentic and bad to be phoney, while for me it is good to be amusing and bad to be boring.

    And as long as we fail to recognise we are on two different cultural crosses, we will misunderstand one another.

    What can I say? We want to be good but find we are bad. You want to be authentic but find you are phoney, while I want to be amusing but find I am boring.

    So our egos are heavily invested in trying to be good - but notice that being good is simply a cultural good.

    And perceiving we come from different cultures, they have less of a hold on us - we can start to play with our cultural differences.

    And in this way we can start to become educated where education is transcending one's own culture rather than taking it for granted.

    And how odd, strange and spare is our own culture when we look at it out of the corner of our eye.
    Now I'm totally lost. In America, "authentic" = "good" and in Australia, "amusing" = good?"
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #125
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    No one is asking you to have guilt. My original contention was that Christians are not persecuted. I then made an analogy of white males. You responded with the claim that white males ARE being persecuted.

    Can you name ONE group who gets persecuted LESS? If you can't name one group, then white males obviously don't have it so bad. I never asked for an apology, I just wanted an admittance that Christians are NOT persecuted, which you still haven't given me.

    I didn't mean to turn this into a race thing at all, (I just blurted out the white male analogy, without thinking it through). Sorry for giving such a late retort, after you answered me; I just re-discovered this thread.
    Go talk to the Armenians...

    there isn't a single religeon that hasn't at some stage had loads of people persecute them.

    go find out how the taliban treated christians, or the north koreans...

    And either you decide persecution is wrong or you don't, don't decide because one side or another doesn't have it AS bad as another, or even as bad as they previously dealt it out, that the persecution they currently feel is deserved.

    That would be like accepting persecution of a modern german person because of what their grandfathers did during the war/holocaust or because someone else is being persecuted more.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think I understand what you're saying here. Are you asking if I would be persecuted at a conservative college for my liberal brand of Christianity? If so, the answer is "oh hell yes." This is one reason I decided not (yet) to pursue a career in academia, although it is what I have wanted to do since I was a young teen--I just don't think I have the chops to navigate a field in which I'll be dodging grenades from both sides. Or I didn't when I was 20 and a fresh college grad; I get choppier with each passing year, so I may still give it a shot.
    Ivy, come here, while it IS true there is no sepperation of church and state rather bizarrely my experience of the US is that you have more problems with disagreements between religeous groups than here. Certainly acedemia here couldn't give a pair of fetid dingos kidneys what your personal opinion is!!! All they care about is your acedemic credentials also you'd be unlikley to fidn anyone seriously upset with you for having your own ideas, unless you went to work in a specifically religeously biased school. I knew a protestant church leader who used to work in a catholic school, no one had any problems, many debates sure... in a non religious school or uni she'd have not had even that.

    Fancy being a uni prof. in the UK??

  7. #127
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Now I'm totally lost. In America, "authentic" = "good" and in Australia, "amusing" = good?"
    Sure, to us you are humourless and to you we are phoney.

    So we see you as bad and you see us as bad.

    So if you can only keep one distinction in your mind at a time, you will be lost.

    To navigate between cultures, you need to keep two ideas in you mind at the same time.

    This is suprisingly rare.

    So we have no alternative but to seek to impose our cultural template on others.

    Naturally this is resisted for the same reason it is imposed.

    And so when a beauty queen tells us, with a straight face, all she wants is world peace, we laugh.

  8. #128
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Ivy, come here, while it IS true there is no sepperation of church and state rather bizarrely my experience of the US is that you have more problems with disagreements between religeous groups than here. Certainly acedemia here couldn't give a pair of fetid dingos kidneys what your personal opinion is!!! All they care about is your acedemic credentials also you'd be unlikley to fidn anyone seriously upset with you for having your own ideas, unless you went to work in a specifically religeously biased school. I knew a protestant church leader who used to work in a catholic school, no one had any problems, many debates sure... in a non religious school or uni she'd have not had even that.

    Fancy being a uni prof. in the UK??
    Actually that sounds pretty rad. I don't know if I could talk the INTP into a move of that magnitude though.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #129
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Actually that sounds pretty rad. I don't know if I could talk the INTP into a move of that magnitude though.
    Here's some thoughts :

    No flies... yes, really. I can sit at home with the lights on and the windows open, after dark in the Summer. Might get the odd moth. I'd never seen a screened door or window until I went to North America.

    A wide variety of locally produced and tended beers and ciders. Some good company to drink it with, too. Every village has a pub (definition of village for these purposes is often just 2 houses) and people use them for social gatherings as a matter of course.

    The best curry and indian cuisine outside of the subcontinent.. Hell, some of the dishes (balti, massala) are British dishes.

    Oh yes.. and you like rain, yes?

  10. #130
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I actually asked one of my professors this question and she came up with a pretty resounding "yes". Her reasoning is that in order to persecute a group, other groups have to force it into a preconceived mold of how people in that group are supposed to act. Groups of privilege such as whites and Christians are not easily forced into such a mold, therefore they can't truly be considered persecuted.
    I hope you rendered this subject unconscious with a large hammer stating on the striking head "Don't bore me with details".

    That definition of persecution sounds terribly convenient to support her theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Ivy, come here,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    while it IS true there is no sepperation of church and state

    Which of course there is in some countries... some fantasy countries which have never existed and have flying livestock which produce all kinds of nice tasty meat and scratchings...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Fancy being a uni prof. in the UK??
    You forgot the pre-reqs...
    -Tweed.
    -Horn rimmed glasses.
    -A propensity to not pay attention to people
    -Deaf
    -More myopic than an american president ( )
    -A secret love of real ale (it's only secret cause yuz a girl... I think)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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