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  1. #41
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's kind of unrelated, but it reminded me of this photo this author sent in for a book he was publishing with us when I was in my very first job after college (a computer book editor) -- he was discussing hard drive crashes, and the picture showed this hard drive where someone had taken a handgun (because he was pissed, I guess) and shot the damn thing once or twice with it. There were these huge gaping bullet holes in the hard drive, and the customer had then tried to send the hard drive in to customer service to be troubleshooted. It's one of the funniest pictures I've ever seen.
    lol

  2. #42

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    I think the guy was a bit over the top (the cigarette for some reason really stuck out to me as an affectation), and I think it would have been more effective to bring it around to more loving note at the end so that she hears (if not believes) that this is an effort to help her be a responsible adult.

    That said, with an entitled little shit like that for a daughter, I completely understand his frustration. He's not asking for anything extraordinary. After what she wrote, I don't know that I'd show the same restraint he did.
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  3. #43
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    This is a further comment from the father on his Facebook page, addressing some of the concerns and sticking up for his daughter's character the rest of the time:

    Lots of people have said similar things Jennie, and I want to address it. I'm not picking on anyone here when I say this, but I do feel the need to stand up for her a little bit.

    She was a frustrated, mad, 15 year old. I surely said the same things to my friends when I was her age. The difference being I didn't put it in a world-wide billboard. THAT was her mistake. Had she thought better of it and deleted it a couple days later, that would have been ok. But since she thought she got away with it, two more posts popped up on her wall (they're hidden, so you can't see them). Getting away with it ONCE made her feel entitled enough to openly call someone else a "bitch" and a "whore" on Facebook. She tested the waters once and a week went by with no reprisals (only because I hadn't found it yet) but that made it OK in her mind I think to post even more inappropriate and hurtful things.

    So now, she's getting punished by the same medium she used to punish others. Shooting the laptop was nothing... it's a toy.. she'll eventually get another. It doesn't matter if it was a laptop, cell phone, or any other tangible object. But the POINT matters.

    My daughter is a loving, smart, kind, little girl who I'm proud of 95% of the time. This one time, well.. no I'm not proud of that. Yes she feels entitled, but all kids today seem to. I'm really not sure where it comes from. My friend Bill Stovall had a good idea on that.. maybe he'll share it on here.

    But at the end of the day, I've got one of the best kids in the world. Yup, she made a mistake, and yes it was a BIG no no in our family. But she's a good kid, makes great grades, and usually respects other people...

    She's going to pay the public price for her public display, but that's where it ends. I'm lucky to have the kid I do and I wouldn't have her any other way. Hopefully, this lesson will pass and the hoopla will die down and life will get back to normal soon." - Tommy Jordan
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  4. #44
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I don't know. Sure, she may be a little shit, but TBH the father seems like an insufferable narcissist. She may well be reacting more to an aura of oppression in the home than any real hardships she has to suffer from doing chores.
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  5. #45
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Our information is fragmentary, but I am inclined to think the father and daughter have similar qualities - we know they are both dramatic and willing to take personal conflict into a public forum. They both know how to be deeply cutting. To see your laptop shot to death is quite the psychological ploy, but so is saying "when you are old don't expect me to help you". Both ideas say "I have a lot of power over you and can make you lose what is most valuable to you and put you an inch in fear of your life". I suspect that both personalities oscillate between harshness/control and indulgence. I'd guess that she is indulged until she crosses a line and then is dramatically punished knowing she will soon be indulged yet again. My guess is that they are both quite manipulative which is why this is explosive.

    I found her letter cruel and condescending. Statements about the "cleaning lady" who was a family friend, and leaving parents vulnerable when they are old are rather sick concepts. I'm generally known to be patient, but this girl would cross the line with me. She seems brazen and insensitive and willful, and so I would tend to take a harder line with her. She hurt her parents to the core with that post I could tell in the way the father communicated.

    To discipline, I would avoid referencess to violence, but I would make sure she learned what it is like to not be an ignorant, privileged, spoilt person. Maybe the parents should have had her give her laptop to a family without the financial resources to buy one. Complaints about helping with chores reinterpreted as time spent at a soup kitchen (and hopefully with other young adults who have more balanced concepts of life and are simply "nicer" people). Threats to not help aging parents result in time spent at the nursing home. This principle could be refined so that if she loves horses, then have her work at a horse rescue. Give her as much ownership as possible over choosing an environment where she is a giver and not a taker. Actually the whole family could respond by doing these things together. The way I figure it either she could be transformed by the environments and re-establish a sense of self that isn't just self-seeking and indulgent, but if she remained mean and egotistical, then at least some people would be helped. It's either a win-win, or a meh-win. Either way there is some win in there.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Lol. His accent just grinds on my nerves. It was physically difficult for me to get through that and I have lived in Texas my whole life. But seriously, with a parent that reacts like that to a 15 year old girl venting on facebook, it is no surprise that she reacts like she does to what is also hardly anything. The mere fact that the post was hidden from her parents means that it was just venting and clearly not an actual list of grievances.

    Also, being 15 IS hard. Adults don't usually remember that.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Did you listen to what he said?

    He claimed he had her (1) sweep the kitchen floor, which takes five minutes and (2) wipe the counters down if they are dirty, which takes 1 minute if they are dirty and 0 minutes if they are not. She is also in charge of only washing her OWN clothes and making her OWN bed. Or did your mom always do all your laundry for you? I don't remember the mopping. THeir stories did not match up, so someone was lying and/or exaggerating. (I'm going to guess there was some incident where she was pissed at having to do chores, and one day he happened to drag mud in the house from the field and she didn't clean it up and got in trouble for not doing the 3-minute sweep, so she had a conniption.)

    Our kids wash their own clothes. When you have four people living in a house, forcing one person with a full-time job to wash everyone else's clothes when there are other things to get done (cleaning, dinner, transportation, etc.) is just an extra drain... especially if one or more of the kids change their clothes more than once a day. The kids are teenagers and have to learn anyway, once they leave for college; they might as well understand it now. I'm not sure why you think forcing a 15-year-old to wash and dry their own laundry to be such an insufferable task; kids should be learning to do chores and contribute to the family's success, with more responsibility being given to them as they get older.
    Sweeping mopping what ever. Anyways, dont piss your pants if you dont want to be washing your pants all the time. Same goes with shoes and floor. Instead of sweeping the floor all the time, it would be wiser to not to get dirt on the floor, so teach the kids to take off their shoes and if you are too lazy to do it yourself, clean your own shit from the floor. Same goes for kitchen counters, who ever gets them dirty should clean them up. Imo its the parents job to be sure that kid has food and clothes. If it feels too much of a job to keep your kids clothes clean, buy a bigger washing machine, so that you dont have to do an extra round with the washing machine. If some clothing sis only used for few hours, that doesent mean that you have to wash them as soon as they come off, so changing clothes multiple times a day, doesent mean any extra laundry.

    When it comes to the punishment, that was way too harsh, especially since he kinda asked for it for being such a strict son of a bitch.

    When it comes to telling your kid to get a job to get anything extra is just wrong, the kids job at that age is to go to school. Naturally its different if the kid wants unneccesary amounts of stuff.
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  8. #48
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    The guy is a douche, though. I've known a lot of assholes like him...where every act of giving, including basic provisions, is a form of leverage. It seems like he's the type that gets her stuff in order to lord it over her - as a form of power. "I gave it to you so I can take it away when you don't do what I want." Also, the way he talked about how much more he did when he was her age (plus the whole "get a job" thing) smacks of narcissism.

    Sure, there are wily little asshole kids, but you can usually distinguish them because the parent comes off as reasonable (if not sometimes a little weak.) He didn't.

    I tend to think the whole chores thing is just an obfuscation on his part. What person with any sense at all is going to disagree that doing a few things around the house is not an unreasonable expectation? I figure, unless I'm totally wrong about the girl and she's just a "bad seed" or something, that the situation is more that she's being made to feel like she's lazy, spoiled, unproductive, and ungrateful IF it appears that doing X, Y, or Z (things he wants her to do) is not important to her. So if it slips her mind, she gets punished, not because it didn't get done, but because her failure to do it indicates (to him) that she doesn't respect his authority, and that she doesn't think those things are important. Like with the job...why does he want her to have one so badly? Nobody goes through that much trouble to coerce their school-aged kid into getting a job unless (1) they're poor and it's necessary, or (2) the parents think that the kid is not doing anything else worthwhile with their time. Since they're obviously well enough off to afford to throw away a laptop, I'm assuming that #1 is out of the question.
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  9. #49
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    I wonder how the the opinions here would stack up (pro, con, and "mixed") if we classified them by each poster's experience raising teenagers?

    I remember growing up all the times I thought my parents were being totally unreasonable and *I* was the one being reasonable. But, as Mark Twain said: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #50
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Sweeping mopping what ever. Anyways, dont piss your pants if you dont want to be washing your pants all the time. Same goes with shoes and floor. Instead of sweeping the floor all the time, it would be wiser to not to get dirt on the floor, so teach the kids to take off their shoes and if you are too lazy to do it yourself, clean your own shit from the floor. Same goes for kitchen counters, who ever gets them dirty should clean them up.
    Ideally, that's how it should go. But it doens't. Trust me. Even with assigned rotating chores in our house, the place still ends up trashed more often than not. And it's not the adults, it's the kids who are blowing off cleaning up after themselves. The typical excuse is, "Oh, I'll do it later," and later never happens, and meanwhile everyone else has to deal with the mess and the house become unusable. Yet, trying to adhere to a firm schedule ends up in regular squabbles, complaints, which wastes more energy that could be used to keep things clean; at least with one of our kids, he wasted far more time arguing about having to clean up than he would have used just doing his assigned task. It was ridiculous.


    Imo its the parents job to be sure that kid has food and clothes.
    I think ideally the parents handle meals (and strive to); but in today's society, where kids want to be heavily involved in activities and families are on the go and both parents are working, that way of life is obsolete. Same thing with clothes. Maybe you'll have a different perspective if you raise kids and have to deal with situations that don't fit into your nice, neatly packaged view of how things "should be." Maybe if this was the '50's, and Mom was home all day long with the only responsibiliy being to care for the house, things would be different.

    If it feels too much of a job to keep your kids clothes clean, buy a bigger washing machine, so that you dont have to do an extra round with the washing machine. If some clothing sis only used for few hours, that doesent mean that you have to wash them as soon as they come off, so changing clothes multiple times a day, doesent mean any extra laundry.
    Did he say she had to wash her clothes daily? She was just in charge of washing her own clothes. That could be twice a week. It could be daily. It could be once every two weeks. You seem to be reading in things that weren't being said.

    Two of our kids wash their clothes in a timely manner. The other child has a floor that is covered with dirty clothes like a carpet. That's his choice, to not wash his clothes regularly; yet at the same time, taken to that degree, it also become a health hazard, so additional rules have to be applied. Like I said, you seem to be assuming some idealized way that all of this goes down, yet really, raising kids is far more complicated than you seem to realize. I remember when they were younger, it was literally impossible to keep the house clean and we pretty much had to accept a lower standard for quality of living space because investing energy to make it clean an hour later was all for naught. There are just too many tasks to get done for one or two people, when one or two people are doing all the tasks, and there are multiple people just contributing to the chaos and mess without regard for who has to clean it up.

    When it comes to telling your kid to get a job to get anything extra is just wrong, the kids job at that age is to go to school. Naturally its different if the kid wants unneccesary amounts of stuff.
    yeah, that one could go either way. Obviously a kid who wants spending money beyond what they get from parents and relatives needs to start pulling down some extra work on their own, to make ends meet.
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