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  1. #1
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    Question Burning the Quran

    I'm sure you've read an article(s) about the "accidental" buring of the Quran in Afghanistan (if you haven't, just leave the thread now, I want posts from people that read the news).

    Is there anything NATO can do besides apologize? Just let the whole issue burn itself out (pun intended)?

    As soon as I heard the news, I began wondering how many Muslims would die in protests. Just a complete waste of time and energy. It really is the Dark Ages in the Middle East.

  2. #2
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    It seems to me that what they should be doing depends on the true motives of the burnings were. If it really was just an accident, and they just got mixed up like they claim (I hope this is the case) then apologizing is the best course of action, and I can't really think of much more they could do. I mean, the soldiers made a mistake, what do they expect? That mistake being grounds for withdrawing forces? That simply won't happen.

    However, if it was more intentional than that, then we have another issue on our hands here.

    I mean, the whole situation in the middle east is just a headache, every single mistake we make over there is highlighted by the media, and things always seem to pop up to further complicate the situation. It's almost starting to seem like Vietnam-lite. You know, an unpopular war with setback after setback, and the media pouncing on everything.
    (Obviously I'm oversimplifying things by referring to all of the conflicts that keep popping up in the middle east as one war, which is debatable, but it sure seems that way sometimes.)

    Basically, no matter what NATO does to try to make amends, this is going to cause problems. There really isn't much they can do... Powder keg, meet open flame.
    ...

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    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    I don't know if there is anything NATO can do to make things right. The Quran is so much more than a "book" to Muslims (much more so than making a comparison of a bible burning). If anything, I think this highlights the ignorance of people that our government funds to operate as military representatives in other countries.

    How does
    American troops at the base would not have been able to read the texts and that would have contributed to the mistake, the official said...
    not make the actions seem ignorant and alleviate guilt on the issue? If anything, people working abroad should know enough of the culture/language to know what they are doing when they're "doing their job."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post

    Is there anything NATO can do besides apologize?.
    Bribe some key Islamic clerics in Afganistan.
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    I can't think of a more ridiculous reason to kill your own people and destroy your town; if they said it was an accident, it was an accident until proven to be otherwise. Nonetheless, I think they are fools who wanted a reason to riot/ fuel their anti-American stance and there's nothing more NATO can do (or should imo). Even if it was on purpose, it's a fucking book and as long as you have your belief that should be all that matters. It's like the veil thing, if you can't practice your religion without objects, then how strong is your faith really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    I don't know if there is anything NATO can do to make things right. The Quran is so much more than a "book" to Muslims (much more so than making a comparison of a bible burning). If anything, I think this highlights the ignorance of people that our government funds to operate as military representatives in other countries.

    How does


    not make the actions seem ignorant and alleviate guilt on the issue? If anything, people working abroad should know enough of the culture/language to know what they are doing when they're "doing their job."
    Seems strange to have to learn cultural sensitivity and how to quickly kill a man at the same time.

    Troops destroy. That is their job. Our troops when called to destroy do it better than anyone else, but expecting them to do anything other than destroy is stupid. Nation building is the most stupid and ignorant act here and it begets other stupid and ignorant acts on both sides.

    The troops have incredibly low morale, are plagued by PTSD, and are putting their lives in danger every day without even really knowing why they're doing it.

    At the same time these Afghanistan mountain tribes are some of the most stupid and morally depraved hypocrites in the world. They condemn homosexuality as punishable by death while offering the 10 year old boys they molest to our officers (who thankfully decline). They can't even figure out the wash stations we give them won't work if they detach the faucet from a water pipe. Seriously. They expect water to magically come out of faucets detached from plumbing.

    We are wasting our time and resources.
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  7. #7
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    When I was in Iraq.. you could tell on a map and pinpoint people who treated the Iraqis badly in comparison to those who respected them. the significant events (IEDs, hasty bombs and traps, etc.) would litter half the map, while our half was relatively quiet in comparison.

    I'm not going to pretend there are no soldiers that hate. Plenty of them do.. the difference is, there's enough of us that don't hate that keep those people in line usually. Its all based on how disciplined someone's chain of command is, and the actions they take. There are plenty of people who hate, but work as if they don't anyways.. that is the most common way here.

    In the case of this.. Burning was ceased as soon as they realized what it was they were burning, the remains were attempted to be salvaged, apologies issued immediately as well as informing Afghan officials of the situation and what they'd done instead of tying to cover it up, as well as mandatory classes issued to ensure soldiers know how to identify religious scriptures and items to avoid this sort of mistake again. If you didn't read English, would you be able to identify every single form of the Bible? It's extremely difficult.. modern versions of books would all look the same. You feel a bit lost in a Muslim library.. everything looks sacred when you don't know what it says.

    Soldiers often get "Sign here" "burn this" "take this box here" orders without ever realizing what they're really signing and doing. It's why there was such a huge moral dilemma about soldiers 'just following orders'... most of the time you really do just walk a bit blindly. It's the nature of the beast.

    Mistakes do happen. In this case, I'm willing to bet a grave mistake was all this was, not malicious intent.
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    We get to kill our women for honor, and sell our daughters to the highest bidder, but don't you dare burn our special book! Infidels!

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    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    We get to kill our women for honor, and sell our daughters to the highest bidder, but don't you dare burn our special book! Infidels!
    I can understand why it is hard to accept another culture so different from our own.. It's savage seeming, because it's so alien. It takes a lot for me to recognize that not all Muslims are the way we think them to be because I see them.

    But wouldn't it be a shame to hate and judge everyone based on limited experience? I've seen for my own eyes Muslim men be harsh, cruel and horrible.. and I've seen them respectful, polite, and sweet.. Loving men that cared for their wives the way I've never seen an American man match.

    I can't say I've seen many American men that revere women the way some Muslim men do. Maybe it is different, but the love for them and the respect is there. It's deep--just different.

    It's hard for me to forget that there are Christian men that disown their daughters just because their daughters dare think for themselves.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I can understand why it is hard to accept another culture so different from our own.. It's savage seeming, because it's so alien. It takes a lot for me to recognize that not all Muslims are the way we think them to be because I see them.

    But wouldn't it be a shame to hate and judge everyone based on limited experience? I've seen for my own eyes Muslim men be harsh, cruel and horrible.. and I've seen them respectful, polite, and sweet.. Loving men that cared for their wives the way I've never seen an American man match.

    I can't say I've seen many American men that revere women the way some Muslim men do. Maybe it is different, but the love for them and the respect is there. It's deep--just different.

    It's hard for me to forget that there are Christian men that disown their daughters just because their daughters dare think for themselves.
    It doesn't seem savage because it's alien. It seems savage because it is savage.

    It's important not to make generalized comments about all muslims, but let's not keep that from allowing us to judge evil acts of afghanistan muslims as evil acts.

    Edit: also please don't insult all Christians of every stripe by referring to the bizarre family known as Westboro baptist as "Christian".
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