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  1. #31
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    The problem is one of education and being on the higher psychological ground. Would you for example tell your kids that Batman was actually only a commercial tool to pull the money out of the parents pockets, while Batman being your childs superhero ?

    You wouldnt
    Actually that s a biased view. Batman is much more than that, there are associated arts, histories, alternative time lines I think (?), movies, toys kids use to leverage their imagination etc.
    They are of course also a commercial product and merchandizing aimed at kids as a way to hook them early when the concept can be have a decent conversion rate to adulthood in terms of sales (I bet the relatively few adult fans spend much more per capita than the young adults and kisd)


    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    How is it okay that because someone - probably accidently - burns a book (even if it is a holy book) that as a result 6 people are killed? Imagine the reaction if a Christian would react to Bible burning by killing people. Would people come alongside him to apologise for burning his holy book or would they put this person in prison for a long long time?
    A few centuries ago killing in the name of god was not only acceptable but considered a high deed in the western world. Why is would our current standards be ''okey'' as opposed to those of these cultures?
    and less than a century ago the the US, country of liberty, was still a racist and segregationist country.
    I am not saying I disagree or agree its just that you haven't really backed up anything. You start explaining and then instead of analyzing the problem you go into ''because i feel that isn't right''. Isnt that the same type of belief based leaps that lead to the very things that disturb you in other societies?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #32
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    ^Think that means he is on our side
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #33
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I Just a complete waste of time and energy. It really is the Dark Ages in the Middle East.
    one could draw the parallel with Christianity in the 14th century and wonder if it has to do with the way these two religions evolved more than just the overall culture. But there s not enough data for that, just an idea to keep in mind for later consideration.

    Muslim culture are very honor baased, its the idea that noone can ''back off/lose face''. it is structurally going to lead to escalation. The chivalry system was honor based as well, if you actually look at whats being said in all the king Arthur stories instead of assuming that chivalry = good what they do wouldnt éven remotely be considered as moral nowadays. It's all about guys murdering hundreds of people for a slight, kidnapping and raping women as something so natural that the stories seem to pass over it or assume that of course any woman would be delighted to have a guy kill her husband and kidnap her and other destructive macho and honor based behaviors and attitudes.

    Now imagine that chivalry stories weren't western and we saw them with our western eye.
    If the world chivarly and the depicted culture didn't mean anything to do you and you looked at the actual stories without an unwilling confirmation bias you would probably see these stories as horrific and barbaric.

    Now when you talk about Arab women. I live in an Arabic country, a modern one perhaps. true.
    Here if you even raise your voice slightly to an Arabic woman because of clear and repeated incompetence from her part you will (as a man) have to apologize 10 times for daring to tell her that you shouldn't remind her to do her job after 4 months of continuous fuck ups having cost you clients and personal money. I know that in my experience of western based companies this person would simply have been fired and I surely shouldn't have apologized to anybody. So which one is most discriminating against women?

    Its not as simple as : women are horribly exploited etc.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    @EcK True and thats the point when you come to education methods.

    I once asked a turkish friend, why woman have no rights in their culture. And he asked me if they have rights in my culture and if its not so that abortion was prohibited by religion as well for example.

    And thats when you as a parent, trieing to teach common sense will have a problem with ur kids. If you do not believe in it yourself, how can your kids ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    @EcK True and thats the point when you come to education methods.

    I once asked a turkish friend, why woman have no rights in their culture. And he asked me if they have rights in my culture and if its not so that abortion was prohibited by religion as well for example.

    And thats when you as a parent, trieing to teach common sense will have a problem with ur kids. If you do not believe in it yourself, how can your kids ?
    I d remake the histories of civilizations in a really simple didactic way to/and teach the importance of context / meta data in any analysis. Incorporate it into games and stories.

    i d probably plan that shit. With a passion and flow charts etc.
    But I dont really see kids in my future atm.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #36
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Thats an honorable goal, everyone should attend to.

    I dont see the general situation as too dark no more as well, cause if you watch all the riots going on in arabian countries at the moment with people claiming democracy, this's a glimmer of hope
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #37
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I believe in the internet as a powerful tool to that end. For example you could make democratic education systems where given wordviews would be voted for and represented. Sure people would complain because the small tribes would only get a word but the idea that everything has to be EQUAL in the geopolitics of culture is just silly.
    People decide to make things equal one on one. Otherwise its structural that there will be generalizations, stereotypes, in/out group mentality, transfer of responsability (its not my fault, its the system that is to blame) etc. That isnt constructive.

    I would rather have a truly representative system (votes per citizen etc) rather than one that could be considered as advantaging certain views. We d probably have to learn alot of chinese history though. But is that really so bad a price to pay to better understand the world we live in.

    Also obviously if you want to expose people to multiple ideas I would have ALOT of classes on rethorics and philosophy (in the true sense, not the ''learn some ideas by heart and act like you can think because your diploma says so''.

    I also think that perhaps the intellectual and more abstract view of things isnt necessarily adapted to everybody's type of intelligence so we might want to work on alternative ways that arent the classic ''learn by heart and dont try to understand''. I would personally start by rewarding analysis over exactitude. Even if the analysis is wrong the very fact of playing on this reinforcement starting in early childhood would encourage an independant mind set. Also using statistics is interesting because they are actually very matter of fact but by the way they look at populations they force people to stand back from the individual and look at large patterns.

    I would for example include a question like this in every test.
    *statement about some historical fact made by .... * ==> what do you think about this, who could be likely to have come up with it and why (multiple possible answers from sub cultures to given civilizations to countries or regions to all of the above)

    Same thing with sciences etc. We might as well look at alternative medicine for a while and see if it works, if it doesnt, and why and if it sometimes gives us stuff that are transfered into medicine proper. etc.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #38
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Yea, very idealistic... Sadly one day in real life suffices to scorch my idealism
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I don't know the specifics of this incident, but generally speaking I'm not in favor of burning the Quran.
    Are there other books you are in favor of burning?

    I'm not in favor of book-burning because I'm not in favor of obliterating a potential source of discussion and contemplation that may distinguish individuality or foment critical thinking, or at worst, indifference. Prohibition often results in an unintentional appropriation of power to the object in question and I like an even playing field.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #40
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Are there other books you are in favor of burning?
    So because I'm not in favor of burning the Quran somehow implies I'm in favor of burning other books.

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