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  1. #1

    Default Libertarians and addiction

    I'm wondering what the libertarian attitude to addiction is?

    I've found this is pretty varied, I know one person who is totally sober now but who had problems with alcohol addiction when they were young (like preteens even) and they are a mentally hardline libertarian because they see the redistribution involved in the welfare state and benefits as sustaining addictions problems, like thos they had and which existed in their family for generations.

    On the other hand, he doesnt support wholesale legalisation of drugs, at least not because he thinks that drug use is a good idea, maybe because he doesnt think its a problem that police time is usefully spent on.

    What I do find is that a lot of libertarians think drug using is a good idea, even if they dont think its a good idea they always strike me as small time dealers of something or that they would like to be small time dealers of something given the chance, at least the ones which I meet online. So they dont seem to worry to much about addiction, either experiencing it themselves or their family members experiencing it or enabling anyone else with addictions.

    I wonder what the views of the resident libertarians are.

  2. #2
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm wondering what the libertarian attitude to addiction is?

    I've found this is pretty varied, I know one person who is totally sober now but who had problems with alcohol addiction when they were young (like preteens even) and they are a mentally hardline libertarian because they see the redistribution involved in the welfare state and benefits as sustaining addictions problems, like thos they had and which existed in their family for generations.

    On the other hand, he doesnt support wholesale legalisation of drugs, at least not because he thinks that drug use is a good idea, maybe because he doesnt think its a problem that police time is usefully spent on.

    What I do find is that a lot of libertarians think drug using is a good idea, even if they dont think its a good idea they always strike me as small time dealers of something or that they would like to be small time dealers of something given the chance, at least the ones which I meet online. So they dont seem to worry to much about addiction, either experiencing it themselves or their family members experiencing it or enabling anyone else with addictions.

    I wonder what the views of the resident libertarians are.
    My view is that you need to meet actual libertarians in real life, because you have the most bizarre conceptions of what libertarians are and what we believe of anyone I have ever come across.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    You what!? I have ... no ... words to ... gah!

    Whatever. You're exactly right. I'm just a small time cocaine dealer and only support drug legalisation because I want to compete with multinational corporations.

    I'm now going to smash my head against a brick wall to take away the pain.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    50% of Lark's posts: libertarians do immoral shit blah blah blah
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    50% of Lark's posts: libertarians do immoral shit blah blah blah
    That number may be a bit low.

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    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    I'm part-libertarian, & I think addiction isn't good. I bet libertarians think it isn't good.

    There are two kinds of addiction, liberal & conservative. Libertarians believe in a socially liberal & economically conservative approach to addiction.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

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    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I'd consider other ideas Lark.

    "The fundamental tenet of the libertarian perspective on drug legalization is that
    individuals, not governments, should decide who consumes drugs. This stems in part from the
    libertarian assumption that most individuals make reasonable choices about drug use. It also
    reflects the libertarian view that, even when individuals make bad decisions about drug use,
    government attempts to “improve” these decisions create more problems than they solve.
    Thus, libertarians accept that some drug use seems irrational and self-destructive, but
    they believe prohibition creates far more harm than drug use itself. Moreover, they do not think
    reducing drug use is an appropriate goal for government policy except in situations where such
    use has direct and substantial costs to innocent third parties. In both these senses, the libertarian
    view on drug policy is consistent with the libertarian attitude toward prohibitions generally.

    The liberal view on drug legalization stems from somewhat different considerations.
    Liberals do not generally trust individuals to make reasonable choices about drug use, and they
    think government should adopt policies that attempt to discourage drug use. But liberal
    legalizers do not like using police power to achieve this goal, especially when that power is
    directed at drug users as opposed to drug sellers. Thus, although liberal legalizers want
    government to reduce the harms from drug abuse, they prefer approaches other than prohibition.
    The liberal view on legalization reflects an assessment of the relative harms of drug use
    versus drug prohibition, and in that sense is similar to the libertarian calculus. But liberals put
    less weight on consumer sovereignty, and they are not as fundamentally suspicious of
    government prohibitions as are libertarians. Thus, for commodities viewed as substantially
    harmful (e.g., tobacco), liberals are willing to consider prohibition, but for commodities viewed
    as relatively benign (e.g., marijuana), they find prohibition excessive.

    Liberals and libertarians are in close agreement on the fact that prohibition has many
    undesired consequences. These include the infringements on civil liberties that are an inevitable
    consequence of attempts to sanction victimless crimes; the corruption and violence fostered in
    2 foreign countries by U.S. attempts to enforce prohibition; the increased frequency of overdoses
    and accidental poisonings that results from the poor quality control in black markets; the
    increased property crime that results from elevated drug prices; and the violence that results
    because participants in black markets settle disagreements with guns rather than lawyers.

    Liberal and libertarian legalizers agree, therefore, that the arrest and prosecution of drug
    users is ill-advised and that current enforcement of prohibition against drug suppliers is excessive.
    On the question of whether drug should be outright legalized, however, and on a broad range of
    other drug policy issues, they disagree considerably. In the remainder of this piece, I outline the main areas of disagreement."

    http://www.economics.harvard.edu/fac...sters_blog.pdf
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Lark, God bless you, I still don't completely understand you, but I agree with the high level gist of where you're headed.
    This is not surprising. You can't seem to grasp the concept that there are lots of people who want drugs legalized who aren't dealers or users.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is not surprising. You can't seem to grasp the concept that there are lots of people who want drugs legalized who aren't dealers or users.


    Oh. I grasp.

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    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    This is funny considering that most of the dealers I know of are against drug legalization. The prices would lower so much that it would destroy their business, or something like that.

    I believe in legalization for many of the reasons in @Huxley3112 's post, not because I am a user, dealer, aspiring dealer, or think that (recreational) drugs are "good."

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