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  1. #11
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    What do you think? It doesn't seem like Iran has any intention of giving up their nuclear program, so what should the world do?
    Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News

  2. #12
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    Interesting, I can't say I'm surprised, nor do I necessarily condone such actions. The threat of nuclear annihilation can cause some countries to do things which they may have considered immoral without such a threat. I really don't know what to believe anymore. If you were to threaten me with a gun do you think I would be as opposed to killing you if you threatened me with your fists? This is that scenario on an infinitely larger scale. I predict that things will be escalating even more in the days/months/years to come.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    This is that scenario on an infinitely larger scale. I predict that things will be escalating even more in the days/months/years to come.
    You're fucking right on that one. The media is conditioning for a war. We are in the right as always. Democracy will prevail. War for Peace. Just look at the bright side, now move towards the light.
    1+1=3 OMFG

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    You're fucking right on that one. The media is conditioning for a war. We are in the right as always. Democracy will prevail. War for Peace. We love to hate
    You could just say what you're thinking...

    However, it is unfortunate but true. I, and many other people I'm sure, see war looming. Personally I'm getting sick of it, but I don't control the world, so I can't do much about it.
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  5. #15
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Would it be any worse than Newt with a red button? there are zealous nut-jobs in every culture...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Would it be any worse than Newt with a red button? there are zealous nut-jobs in every culture...
    True enough. Every culture/country has zealous nut-jobs, so I guess we should just allow everyone to have nuclear weapons, and just pray that the world will still exist tomorrow.
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  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    True enough. Every culture/country has zealous nut-jobs, so I guess we should just allow everyone to have nuclear weapons, and just pray that the world will still exist tomorrow.
    You should pray for that anyway, if you're the praying kind, because lots of crazy people alreasy have the codes. Heard of Putin? How about Pakistan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    You should pray for that anyway, if you're the praying kind, because lots of crazy people alreasy have the codes. Heard of Putin? How about Pakistan?
    Nope, not really the praying kind as a matter of fact, and yes, I do realize that many people already have nukes. My point is that just because crazy people already have the codes/weapons do you really think letting more crazy people have them is in our best interests? In the past, the two major nuclear powers of the time (The United States and Russia) had decided that it was a bad idea to have too many nukes, and they started to dismantle much of their arsenals... Now the rest of the world is going in the opposite direction. We came ridiculously close to nuclear war when the tension was just between two countries. I don't think things will go so well when the tension is between more than that many.
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  9. #19
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Nope, not really the praying kind as a matter of fact, and yes, I do realize that many people already have nukes. My point is that just because crazy people already have the codes/weapons do you really think letting more crazy people have them is in our best interests? In the past, the two major nuclear powers of the time (The United States and Russia) had decided that it was a bad idea to have too many nukes, and they started to dismantle much of their arsenals... Now the rest of the world is going in the opposite direction. We came ridiculously close to nuclear war when the tension was just between two countries. I don't think things will go so well when the tension is between more than that many.
    I get the argument, I just feel the inevitable futility of trying to police nuclear proliferation when so many players (Chine, for instance) can and will move the pieces in any direction they like. so we stop Iran now, but Russia helps them anyway, for their own strategic reasons.
    And so on...I dunno.

  10. #20
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    Before I say anything else, I don't think the emergence of a Nuclear Iran warrants a preemptive strike.

    Iran doesn't have the capabilities, or in my estimation the inclination, to utilize a nuclear weapon against the US conventionally. They don't have an ICBM, they don't have a stealth plane capable of penetrating our airspace, and they don't have a military capable of doing anything to us on US soil.

    To justify a preemptive strike with the argument that a nuclear Iran threatens domestic US safety is ridiculous.

    The question then becomes "Could Iran, through guerrilla (read terrorist) means, get a nuclear weapon into the US and detonate it?"

    My answer is yes. But they have no inclination to do so, as international (or just US) reaction to such an act would erase Iran from the memory of Human Civilization.

    The real question is whether the creation of a Nuclear Iran would prompt a preemptive strike from Israel.

    While the ongoing antagonism between Israel and Iran is of no benefit to either nation in real terms, the ethnic opposition between these two peoples is so deeply ingrained that it counts as a crucial element of foreign policy (to the public of each nation at least).

    Whether or not there will be bloodshed between Israel and Iran over the development of Iranian nuclear weapons is a harder question to answer than whether or not the US will strike preemptively. Given the international treaties involved, such aggressive action between Israel and Iran would force America's hand in the matter. Taking into consideration the relative regional positions of Israel and Iran, I don't think Israel will preemptively strike.

    The unintended consequences of such action are understood by all parties involved, and no one wants WWIII on top of whatever percentage of the world's oil supply Iran can still lay claim to.

    As dangerous as it is to rely on the fact that you will turn into radioactive glass, any country that dares to use nuclear weapons against you, it's worked so far. The development of nuclear weapons by Iran is as much (if not more) about gaining parity in international negotiations, and sitting at the adult's table in the UN, as it is about the actual tactical and strategic value of having such weapons.

    Moving forward, our (read USA) focus needs to be on how to move through this process of allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons, without actually looking like we've allowed them to do it (in order to save face politically at home, and diplomatically on the international stage). We need to publicly oppose their development of these weapons, while concurrently understanding that this development is almost an inevitability at this point (barring violent preemption). Our greatest focus needs to be on containing an Israel that is, no doubt, chomping at the bit, to start a hot war with Iran over this.

    Should we manage this herculean feet of containing Israel's preemptive inclinations, we won't have anything to worry about, besides an Iran with a slightly better bargaining position internationally.

    It feels good to write about politics again.

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