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  1. #31
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    lowtech, do you want Ginsburg impeached for this?
    Of course not, I'm just angry that a Supreme Court Justice thinks that the document that defines her country and the legal principles she is sworn to uphold is more defective than those of most liberal democracies, and said as much to an international audience.

    Frankly, I would have left it as a unsmiley-faced rant and moved on (I was already aware that Ginsburg subscribed to much different political principles than I do, after all), but then I had to repeatedly explain to everyone why the words she used mean this and not that, like a high school reading comprehension test. Oh, and explain repeatedly that we are talking about the current Constitution, not the one created over 200 years ago (I guess its just easier to choose to assume that I uncritically worship the US Constitution like the Quran for no other reason than that its American and therefore perfect and eternally unchanged).

  2. #32
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    (I guess its just easier to choose to assume that I uncritically worship the US Constitution like the Quran for no other reason than that its American and therefore perfect and eternally unchanged).
    Is it really an assumption? It seems pretty clear from this thread that you think the current US constitution is perfect and beyond any criticism, since you're having a hissy fit that she didn't proclaim the US to be the bestest EVAR (she didn't even criticize it...).

    You seem oddly mad that she exercised her right to free speech.
    -end of thread-

  3. #33
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Is it really an assumption? It seems pretty clear from this thread that you think the current US constitution is perfect and beyond any criticism, since you're having a hissy fit that she didn't proclaim the US to be the bestest EVAR (she didn't even criticize it...).

    You seem oddly mad that she exercised her right to free speech.
    This is the last time I'll mention an exceedingly obvious point: she did not merely say that the US Constitution isn't the 'bestest EVAR', she included just about every other liberal democratic Constitution as being less defective. As a comparison, that would essentially be the same as several powerful jurists in your own country, responsible for putting legal force behind the legal principles that shape your country, telling an American audience they think the Canadian Constitution is significantly inferior to the US Constitution and would recommend that new democracies ignore it in favor of almost every other Constitution in the democratic world. If you can honestly tell me that would not anger you, then fine-but I would not think that you uncritically worshiped the Canadian Constitution if such an occurrence did, in fact, make you angry.

    And if I remember correctly*, you did far more than post an online rant (or 'hissy fit') when the eminently ignorable Ann Coulter wished to exercise her freedom of speech at a Canadian University, so you're being more than a little hypocritical here.

    *If I have mistaken you for someone else, I apologize.

  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Of course not, I'm just angry that a Supreme Court Justice thinks that the document that defines her country and the legal principles she is sworn to uphold is more defective than those of most liberal democracies, and said as much to an international audience.

    Frankly, I would have left it as a unsmiley-faced rant and moved on (I was already aware that Ginsburg subscribed to much different political principles than I do, after all), but then I had to repeatedly explain to everyone why the words she used mean this and not that, like a high school reading comprehension test. Oh, and explain repeatedly that we are talking about the current Constitution, not the one created over 200 years ago (I guess its just easier to choose to assume that I uncritically worship the US Constitution like the Quran for no other reason than that its American and therefore perfect and eternally unchanged).
    You are the one with reading comprehension problems. Either that or, like I've been saying, you're searching for something to be upset over, so you're ignoring what she said about free speech AND deliberately taking her statement about the US constitution literally and out of context.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    This thread reminded me of this clip.

    http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...deeper-meaning
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36

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    Her mental faculties appear to be intact, but her physical condition looks frail. I get nervous watching her. She looks like she'll keel over at any moment. I wonder how long it will be before she must be replaced. It can't be that far off.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #37
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And if I remember correctly*, you did far more than post an online rant (or 'hissy fit') when the eminently ignorable Ann Coulter wished to exercise her freedom of speech at a Canadian University, so you're being more than a little hypocritical here.

    *If I have mistaken you for someone else, I apologize.
    I'm guessing you've either mistaken me for someone else or completely misunderstood what I was saying, since I had no issue at all with her coming (nor did the university - she chose not to come herself because there was expected to be protesting, or she wanted a publicity stunt, or something like that, my memory is fuzzy since it was a while ago). Also not sure what you're implying exactly by "far more than an online rant" but I'll just assume your memory is faulty there...

    I'm also not the one being all "rah rah US constitution" and although I am generally in favour of free speech, I have never claimed to be pro-unconditional freedom to speak racist slurs and so on, so I'm not sure how I'm being hypocritical. I was pointing out the inconsistency in your own opinions, not implying that complete freedom of speech is a universally good thing...

    she included just about every other liberal democratic Constitution as being less defective.
    Really, Canada and South Africa are "just about every other liberal democratic Constitution" in the world? really?
    As a comparison, that would essentially be the same as several powerful jurists in your own country, responsible for putting legal force behind the legal principles that shape your country, telling an American audience they think the Canadian Constitution is significantly inferior to the US Constitution and would recommend that new democracies ignore it in favor of almost every other Constitution in the democratic world. If you can honestly tell me that would not anger you, then fine-but I would not think that you uncritically worshiped the Canadian Constitution if such an occurrence did, in fact, make you angry.
    Would I be amused at your reaction if such a thing would make me angry? I would imagine my reaction would be more along the lines of "hmm, I wonder why she would say that, maybe we could learn something from other countries if they're doing it better" rather than "shut up, bitch". Or more likely, complete indifference since it's really not a big deal. I prefer to spend my mental energy worrying about things that matter (unless it's entertaining to do otherwise).
    -end of thread-

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    lol. So much fuss over saying it's old and that Constitutions that aren't hundreds of years old might be more relevant, particularly from a human rights perspective (not much regard for those when the US constitution was drafted).

    Americans crack me up. Not all of you, just some of you.
    Right wingers are a bit nutty like that. You'd think the Founding Fathers were the prophets of God and every thing they wrote was Scripture.

  9. #39
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Also not sure what you're implying exactly by "far more than an online rant" but I'll just assume your memory is faulty there...

    I'm also not the one being all "rah rah US constitution" and although I am generally in favour of free speech, I have never claimed to be pro-unconditional freedom to speak racist slurs and so on, so I'm not sure how I'm being hypocritical. I was pointing out the inconsistency in your own opinions, not implying that complete freedom of speech is a universally good thing...

    Really, Canada and South Africa are "just about every other liberal democratic Constitution" in the world? really?

    Would I be amused at your reaction if such a thing would make me angry? I would imagine my reaction would be more along the lines of "hmm, I wonder why she would say that, maybe we could learn something from other countries if they're doing it better" rather than "shut up, bitch". Or more likely, complete indifference since it's really not a big deal. I prefer to spend my mental energy worrying about things that matter (unless it's entertaining to do otherwise).
    1.) I remembered something about participating in or supporting a protest of some sort when she was scheduled to speak; if I misinterpreted what you said, fine.

    2.) I was referring to your characterization of my online unsmiley-face rant as a 'hissy-fit' in light of my (possibly faulty) memory of your engaging in or supporting a protest of Ann Coulter, someone who is not important enough to warrant that kind of effort.

    3.) Canada, South Africa, and EU member-states are about 20 countries by themselves. When you further add up the countries with Constitutions written mostly after 1940, that adds up to a majority of liberal democratic Constitutions. I don't understand your confusion about that.

    4.) Fair enough; political principles (real free speech not least among them) and Constitutional structures are particularly important to me, its the reason I chose my major in the first place.

  10. #40
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You are the one with reading comprehension problems. Either that or, like I've been saying, you're searching for something to be upset over, so you're ignoring what she said about free speech AND deliberately taking her statement about the US constitution literally and out of context.
    First you said I have reading comprehension problems, then you say I erred in taking what she said 'literally'; that would seem to imply that her actual choice of words (whether she meant them or not) mean what I interpreted them to mean. Incidentally, its not just right-wing 'wingnuts' like myself who think that she failed to adequately emphasize the importance of free speech as laid down in the US Constitution, relative to other Constitutions:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._republic.html

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