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  1. #31
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You must be not be talking about American conservatives.
    Most think of their own way as the definition of reason, but one will never find what they already presume to have.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    Most think of their own way as the definition of reason, but one will never find what they already presume to have.
    Substance please.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33

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    I read their paper (because I have insomnia and was hoping it would put me to sleep). The commit many errors, not the least of which is equivocation.

    I didn't feel like looking up the surveys they used to measure beliefs or what they actually use to measure g. It would not surprise me if sub-sections of the tests were picked so that the scores were meant to mean what they wanted. Tiny manipulations like that in large samples like theirs can easily lead to "significant" results.

    Also, their mediation model gives a mechanistic explanation (low IQ leads to right wing ideology leads to racism) for an average phenomenon (if it is even statistically significant as they claim). I always find that a dubious thing to try. I am amazed at how much people think they can learn from correlations alone. Although, I believe it to be a joke when Rutherford said it, it does remind me of this: http://quotationsbook.com/quote/35196/ .

    I believe, especially in large studies like this, the raw data should be made available to the public (anonymized, but otherwise raw). The statistics they report are very basic ones, an a reasonably educated person should be able to check the math (or decide to use different questions from the surveys, or whatever).

    There was a study on sexuality made available on the web that had an amazing way to visualize and track cohorts through the answers to survey questions. I wish I could remember the website.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Substance please.
    If you believe you already have something which you don't, you'll never look for it, and therefore never find it.

    The converse is also true, if you look for something you already have, even when you don't find it you still have it. Like looking for the car keys which you are already holding in your hands while you talk on the phone, for instance.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    If you believe you already have something which you don't, you'll never look for it, and therefore never find it.

    The converse is also true, if you look for something you already have, even when you don't find it you still have it. Like looking for the car keys which you are already holding in your hands while you talk on the phone, for instance.
    I know you're trying really hard to sound insightful and profound, but it's not working. I want evidence, not rambling nonsense.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    Senior Member EvidenceOfRedemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I know you're trying really hard to sound insightful and profound, but it's not working. I want evidence, not rambling nonsense.
    I'm not an intellectual, I don't have opinion polls or anything like that. It's either something you can understand or it's not.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvidenceOfRedemption View Post
    I'm not an intellectual, I don't have opinion polls or anything like that. It's either something you can understand or it's not.
    I understand what you're trying to say. I just don't think it has any value. You're trying to make something as mundane as saying "the sky is blue" sound profound. It's not, and it never will be.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I read their paper (because I have insomnia and was hoping it would put me to sleep). The commit many errors, not the least of which is equivocation.

    I didn't feel like looking up the surveys they used to measure beliefs or what they actually use to measure g. It would not surprise me if sub-sections of the tests were picked so that the scores were meant to mean what they wanted. Tiny manipulations like that in large samples like theirs can easily lead to "significant" results.

    Also, their mediation model gives a mechanistic explanation (low IQ leads to right wing ideology leads to racism) for an average phenomenon (if it is even statistically significant as they claim). I always find that a dubious thing to try. I am amazed at how much people think they can learn from correlations alone. Although, I believe it to be a joke when Rutherford said it, it does remind me of this: http://quotationsbook.com/quote/35196/ .

    I believe, especially in large studies like this, the raw data should be made available to the public (anonymized, but otherwise raw). The statistics they report are very basic ones, an a reasonably educated person should be able to check the math (or decide to use different questions from the surveys, or whatever).

    There was a study on sexuality made available on the web that had an amazing way to visualize and track cohorts through the answers to survey questions. I wish I could remember the website.
    Damn. I need data analyzing skills like this.
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  9. #39
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    I would doubt that about economic liberalism, since that's a tenet of socialism & I've observed genuine socialists to be very bright in general.
    I find that not to be the case in the U.S. for the most part. The belief in the need for strong central authority in both the economic and social spheres has correlated very strongly with provincialism, ignorance, etc. in my experience. I do know some socialists who are quite well-read, but they tend not to think through the ramifications of what they believe. People who are "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" (basically libertarian) have the highest percentage of graduate education and are overrepresented in economics departments in universities.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #40
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I find that not to be the case in the U.S. for the most part. The belief in the need for strong central authority in both the economic and social spheres has correlated very strongly with provincialism, ignorance, etc. in my experience.
    Of course I'd expect a libertarian to see things this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I do know some socialists who are quite well-read, but they tend not to think through the ramifications of what they believe.
    You might just never notice an intelligent socialist when you meet one. Incidentally, I tend to think libertarians don't think through the ramifications of what they believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    People who are "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" (basically libertarian) have the highest percentage of graduate education and are overrepresented in economics departments in universities.
    Oy. That might mean even less than IQ scores.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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