User Tag List

View Poll Results: Are you happy with the removal of habeas corpus?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Of course! We must be extra careful in times of war.

    0 0%
  • Of course not! Evidence connecting the accused to the crime is necessary.

    18 94.74%
  • It doesn't matter to me, I'm not a terrorist.

    1 5.26%
12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 14

  1. #1
    Member Annuit Coeptis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    51

    Default Do you think the removal of habeas corpus was a good idea?

    from Maher Arar's website

    Maher's Story in Brief
    Maher Arar is a 34-year-old wireless technology consultant. He was born in Syria and came to Canada with his family at the age of 17. He became a Canadian citizen in 1991. On Sept. 26, 2002, while in transit in New York’s JFK airport when returning home from a vacation, Arar was detained by US officials and interrogated about alleged links to al-Qaeda. Twelve days later, he was chained, shackled and flown to Syria, where he was held in a tiny “grave-like” cell for ten months and ten days before he was moved to a better cell in a different prison. In Syria, he was beaten, tortured and forced to make a false confession.

    During his imprisonment, Arar's wife, Monia Mazigh, campaigned relentlessly on his behalf until he was returned to Canada in October 2003. On Jan. 28, 2004, under pressure from Canadian human rights organizations and a growing number of citizens, the Government of Canada announced a Commission of Inquiry into the Actions of Canadian Officials in Relation to Maher Arar.

    Here is the Commissioner's report. It's long, but it has a table of contents http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/AR_English.pdf

    On September 18, 2006, the Commissioner of the Inquiry, Justice Dennis O'Connor, cleared Arar of all terrorism allegations, stating he was "able to say categorically that there is no evidence to indicate that Mr. Arar has committed any offence or that his activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada."
    Last edited by Annuit Coeptis; 04-24-2008 at 01:08 PM. Reason: I deleted some text accidentally :)
    read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin to learn how the Federal Reserve is robbing Americans blind and destroying this nation and others.

  2. #2
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    American citizens still have habeas corpus, contrary to what the title of this thread seems to suggest. The "removal" of such only affects foreigners. I personally don't see any problem with giving foreigners the power of habeas corpus, but as long as they know beforehand that they aren't guaranteed that right here, then they come here at their own risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #3
    Member Annuit Coeptis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    51

    Default

    We're snatching people up, though, from other countries- IN other countries- and BRINGING THEM to Guantanamo Bay to be tortured, and arguing that it is within our right to do so.

    Edit: We are paying the northern alliance $5000 a head to bring us people connected with Al Quaeda- and we do not require evidence to lock them up. Also note that for third world countries, $5000 a head is a pretty big incentive. So, without habeas corpus, what is to keep us from snatching up and torturing entirely too many innocent people?
    read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin to learn how the Federal Reserve is robbing Americans blind and destroying this nation and others.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Motor Jax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    104

    Default

    we need to have it in place

    the story is enraging

  5. #5
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Annuit Coeptis View Post
    We're snatching people up, though, from other countries- IN other countries- and BRINGING THEM to Guantanamo Bay to be tortured, and arguing that it is within our right to do so.

    Edit: We are paying the northern alliance $5000 a head to bring us people connected with Al Quaeda- and we do not require evidence to lock them up. Also note that for third world countries, $5000 a head is a pretty big incentive. So, without habeas corpus, what is to keep us from snatching up and torturing entirely too many innocent people?
    Quite a bit of speculation there based on a few isolated stories.

    Honestly, if you are concerned with how the US conducts itself overseas then go do something about it. Campaign or write letters. It seems kindof silly to me to sit on the internet, read about all these "alleged" actions, and then take no action yourself aside form spreading it on the internet like it is fact without any evidence to support the speculations aside from the isolated stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #6
    Member Annuit Coeptis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Quite a bit of speculation there based on a few isolated stories.

    Honestly, if you are concerned with how the US conducts itself overseas then go do something about it. Campaign or write letters. It seems kindof silly to me to sit on the internet, read about all these "alleged" actions, and then take no action yourself aside form spreading it on the internet like it is fact without any evidence to support the speculations aside from the isolated stories.
    hold on there, kiddo!

    1)You have no way of knowing what action I am taking, so you don't really have grounds for accusing me of "taking no action," right?

    2)There is literally nothing I can do to change how the U.S. conducts itself overseas. Raising awareness though, is a start.

    3)(Most importantly) None of the information that I've been posting has been coming from websites! Just because I post a link to a website that supports my position does not mean that that is the source that I acquired the information from! (I can't very well link you to a BOOK, can I?)
    Edit: Though I should be more careful in checking out the links I post- I normally don't like to post links at all for that reason, (I fucked it up by linking to some inaccurate website in a previous thread)

    But, the book where I got those "alleged actions" about paying the Northern Alliance from is "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf, thanks for asking! (Is it really a secret that we finance factions we are in fundamental disagreement with to do our bidding if it's convenient?)

    And no, I'm not claiming that just because information is bound and published that it isn't biased or even flat-out incorrect- I'm only claiming that you may have overstepped your boundaries with that last post, if only because you do not know how I get my information. (Except now, you do.)

    Sorry if this post sounded like I was yelling...

    Edit: There is a whole lot of documented information about Guantanamo Bay, it's a very important subject to read about IMO.
    read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin to learn how the Federal Reserve is robbing Americans blind and destroying this nation and others.

  7. #7
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Annuit Coeptis View Post
    I'm only claiming that you may have overstepped your boundaries with that last post, if only because you do not know how I get my information.
    Just so you know, legitimate researchers actually cite where they get their information. They do so, so that others can critique the sources of that information and determine whether it is legitimate or even credible. Coming onto a forum and making claims like, "the federal reserve is owned by private corporations," and "Stop the NAU!" without citing appropriate and credible sources is not an intelligent way to "raise awareness". It is the kind of mentality that allows hoaxes, selective knowledge, and misperceptions to be spread. Critical thinking requires that people remain skeptical, know where their information is coming from, know the bias by which it was written, question the claims by seeking alternative sources, and filter out the propaganda.

    So I don't think I have "overstepped" any "boundaries" by questioning your sources, especially when you provide less than credible ones or fail to provide any at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #8
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    American citizens still have habeas corpus, contrary to what the title of this thread seems to suggest. The "removal" of such only affects foreigners. I personally don't see any problem with giving foreigners the power of habeas corpus, but as long as they know beforehand that they aren't guaranteed that right here, then they come here at their own risk.
    Wow, do you really think that if I visit you from the UK, or a Canadian does, that we shouldn't be entitled to the same rights on your soil?

    Wow.

  9. #9
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Wow, do you really think that if I visit you from the UK, or a Canadian does, that we shouldn't be entitled to the same rights on your soil?

    Wow.
    Did you read what I posted?

    I said I don't see any problem with you having the same rights as us. However, the current laws don't provide you with those rights and so I think foreigners should know they travel here at their own risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #10
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    5,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Did you read what I posted?

    I said I don't see any problem with you having the same rights as us. However, the current laws don't provide you with those rights and so I think foreigners should know they travel here at their own risk.
    Ah, I read into your tone that you were effectively saying "and if foreigners travel here that's ok as long as you tell them there is a risk to them". Looks I am wrong and you are indeed pretty horrified you're country might deny rights that one might call... civilised.. then I am happy to apologise! My bad!

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] What do you think the Myers-Briggs of the typical genius is?
    By TheGodson in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-19-2017, 12:31 AM
  2. [SJ] SJ's, what do you think about most of the time?
    By NewEra in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 04-17-2017, 09:20 PM
  3. What do you think the purpose of philosophy or spirituality is?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-19-2015, 10:17 PM
  4. What type do you think a majority of mafia/mobsters would be?
    By swordpath in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-07-2010, 11:05 AM
  5. What do you think about most of the time?
    By Sacrator in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 09-01-2009, 04:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO