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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Permanent or Political?

    Australia, New Zealand and Canada have a permanent Public Service, while the USA has a political Civil Service.

    So while we change the political parties, the Public Service remains the same.

    By contrast, the USA changes their Civil Service along with the political parties.

    We find our permanent Public Service serves our national interest by retaining their knowledge and expertise from government to government, whereas in the USA the government is viewed with suspicion, from the militias who go out into the woods to practise for another violent revolution against another tyrannical government, to every second USA politician who distances themselves from the 'Washington elite', and claims to be indepedent and pure.

    So we trust our government while the USA regards theirs with suspicion and hostility.

    Is this because we have a permanent Public Service while the USA has a political Civil Service?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    We replace our civil servants and administrators independent of eachother, a presidential election doesn't replace the senators.
    Also, Police, Firefighters, and that woman at the DMV, all are civil servants and completely unaffected by electoral politics.
    I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    We replace our civil servants and administrators independent of eachother, a presidential election doesn't replace the senators.
    Also, Police, Firefighters, and that woman at the DMV, all are civil servants and completely unaffected by electoral politics.
    I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to.
    Yes, when you change your President, he appoints the Heads of your Civil Service.

    So it is the Heads of your Civil Service that are chosen by a politician.

    So I am referring to the Heads of your Civil Service and the Heads of our Public Service.

  4. #4
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    Yes, the Heads of your Civil Service are called Secretaries, such as the Secretary of Defence. And we also have Secretaries as Heads of our Public Service. And we also have a Secretary of Defence.

    For instance, your Secretary of Defence is a politically appointment, while our Secretary of Defence is a permanent Head. So we might say your Secretaries are political while ours are professional.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Ohhh. Right. The cabinet. I don't like the idea of a permanent appointment nor do I like them being appointed every 4 years by the president, I'd rather they were elected officials every so often like the rest.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    Ohhh. Right. The cabinet. I don't like the idea of a permanent appointment nor do I like them being appointed every 4 years by the president, I'd rather they were elected officials every so often like the rest.
    Oops, out of the frying pan into the fire. I am trying to sell you on the merits of a permanent Civil Service, but if they were elected they would change with every election.

    This is what happens now except yours are politically appointed rather than elected.

    No, a permanent Public Service like Australia, Canada and New Zealand provides a stable, professional administration that is trusted by the people.

  7. #7
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Personally I'm rather concerned about how in the US people elect judges, DAs and State's Attorney etc, rather than having them appointed. This seems dangerous for 2 reasons: they're more interested in being popular rather than doing justice, and it is a recipe for corruption. IMO politics and the justice system do not, and should not, mix.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oops, out of the frying pan into the fire. I am trying to sell you on the merits of a permanent Civil Service, but if they were elected they would change with every election.

    This is what happens now except yours are politically appointed rather than elected.

    No, a permanent Public Service like Australia, Canada and New Zealand provides a stable, professional administration that is trusted by the people.
    What would happen if a person in Australia, Canada, or New Zealand was dissatisfied with their civil servants?

    Could they even do a single thing about it?

    Or would you just have to suck it up for a few decades?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oops, out of the frying pan into the fire. I am trying to sell you on the merits of a permanent Civil Service, but if they were elected they would change with every election.

    This is what happens now except yours are politically appointed rather than elected.

    No, a permanent Public Service like Australia, Canada and New Zealand provides a stable, professional administration that is trusted by the people.
    If people trust their civil servants they can re-elect them, permanence, even amidst cries for change, and even in lower level offices, is tantamount to dictatorship.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    If people trust their civil servants they can re-elect them, permanence, even amidst cries for change, and even in lower level offices, is tantamount to dictatorship.
    Theoretically, could an Australian, Canadian, or New Zealander find any alternative to a civil servant proven to be terrible in their field? Or would they forever succumb to tyranny of the incompetent neomonarch? Is this why the United States cast off their monarchy centuries ago?

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