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  1. #11
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Is it that important to trust the civil service, anyway? In my opinion, lack of faith in government is a feature of American society, not a bug. We should be skeptical, if not downright suspicious, of those in positions of power.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #12
    small potatoes NotOfTwo's Avatar
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    The Canadians I have talked to do not seem trustful of their government.
    "It's never enough." The Cure

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So we trust our government while the USA regards theirs with suspicion and hostility.

    Is this because we have a permanent Public Service while the USA has a political Civil Service?
    I don't think it has anything to do with public service. I think suspicion of the government is, as Pure Mercury suggested, a hallmark of American culture. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say maybe it has something to do with the fact that the USA was formed by revolution against England, while Australia is a realm of the Commonwealth.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What would happen if a person in Australia, Canada, or New Zealand was dissatisfied with their civil servants?

    Could they even do a single thing about it?

    Or would you just have to suck it up for a few decades?
    Good heavens, we can lodge a complaint with our Local Elected Member of Parliament who has considerable power to act. Or we can lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman who is independent with the power to investigate. And of course the local newspaper is interested in our complaint.

    But essentially our elected Parliament has oversight and power over Public Servants.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Is it that important to trust the civil service, anyway? In my opinion, lack of faith in government is a feature of American society, not a bug. We should be skeptical, if not downright suspicious, of those in positions of power.
    Of course, power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's why we are a liberal democracy in order to limit power. And it works. Our Prime Minister is not even mentioned in our Constitution, and can be removed anytime by her Party or by the Parliament itself or even by the Governor General.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Personally I'm rather concerned about how in the US people elect judges, DAs and State's Attorney etc, rather than having them appointed. This seems dangerous for 2 reasons: they're more interested in being popular rather than doing justice, and it is a recipe for corruption. IMO politics and the justice system do not, and should not, mix.
    Exactly, our professional Public Service provides free and fearless advice to the Minister, an elected member of Parliament. And then the Minister must take responisibility for any decisions made.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Theoretically, could an Australian, Canadian, or New Zealander find any alternative to a civil servant proven to be terrible in their field? Or would they forever succumb to tyranny of the incompetent neomonarch? Is this why the United States cast off their monarchy centuries ago?
    What is fascinating is watching the President enter the House in exactlty the same way our Monarch enters Parliament. In other words the relationship of the President to the House is the same as the relationship of the Monarch to Parliament. With one difference.

    Our Monarch has no political power whatsoever, while your President is a power politician.

    So we have successfully limited the power of our Monarch while you elect a Monarch every four or eight years.

    And yet you have the hide to sling off at us!

  8. #18
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    Civil War and Apple Pie

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with public service. I think suspicion of the government is, as Pure Mercury suggested, a hallmark of American culture. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say maybe it has something to do with the fact that the USA was formed by revolution against England, while Australia is a realm of the Commonwealth.
    Please! Rather than a revolution against England it was a civil war instigated by the bourgeoise against lawful authority.

    And the blood of one civil war wasn't enough and so there had to be a second. And looking round the world we see you have been instigating civil wars wherever you go. As I write you are instigating a civil war in Iran. But rather than calling it by its righful name, you call it 'regime change'.

    And your ambassador to Australia, Marshall Green, after instigating a civil war in Vietnam, tried to instigate a civil war here in 1975 by being implicated in the dismissal of our elected Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam, who had the full confidence of Parliament. But civil war being foreign to us, we had an election instead.

    Civil war is as American as apple pie.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What is fascinating is watching the President enter the House in exactlty the same way our Monarch enters Parliament. In other words the relationship of the President to the House is the same as the relationship of the Monarch to Parliament. With one difference.
    I believe the President of the United States signs legislation into law. Is that the difference you refer to?


    Our Monarch has no political power whatsoever, while your President is a power politician.

    So we have successfully limited the power of our Monarch while you elect a Monarch every four or eight years.

    And yet you have the hide to sling off at us!
    The United States of America is an advanced nation with 3 distinct, influential branches of federal government. Those branches are the executive (headed by President Barack Obama), the legislative (composed of the Senate and lower House), and the judicial (where the constitutional legitimacy of any law may be challenged at any time, by any man, woman, or child)

    This balance of power supersedes the need for any ceremonial monarch, and involves the populace in the governance of their district and the nation at large.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I believe the President of the United States signs legislation into law. Is that the difference you refer to?
    Your President is your Politcal Leader, your Commander-in-Chief, and your Head of State. This looks to me like the maximisation of power rather than the limitation of power we find in a liberal democracy.

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