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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Keystone XL Pipeline
    Sen. David Vitter just signed up to support the everything-on-the-planet-may-die-if-we-build-it pipeline. Yes, David "ridiculous pseudo-science garbage" "I do not think the science clearly supports global warming" Vitter. New bill will be introduced to strip the President of his power to delay the construction, handing that power back to congress.

  2. #32
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukethewhippet View Post
    The repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act, which prohibited the merging of investment banks and retail banks would certainly qualify as an example of unprecedented deregulation.
    I don't know if I would consider that "unprecedented," as that law was on the books for less than 70 years. Anything else? I read and hear the "deregulation" meme all the time, but no one ever mentions anything but Glass-Steagal. I just don't see it. In fact, a very large amount of blame for our most recent crisis lies with the federal government asserting itself, rather than vice versa.



    Malinvestment should not be rewarded. However, among the people who stood to lose should the financial system not be thrown a life preserver were people that didn't "invest" in anything. Their only crime was to have their pay cheque go into a bank and to trust that bank with their savings. Those people would have been severely disadvantaged.
    And they shouldn't be punished. Assuming they were simply investing in the retail banks, they were covered by FDIC up to $250,000 per account, were they not? I'd be much more in favor of an FDIC "bailout" than a corporate bailout, as we had. And I do not like having the federal government owning a large chunk of any financial or manufacturing companies. Bad juju there.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukethewhippet View Post
    Sen. David Vitter just signed up to support the everything-on-the-planet-may-die-if-we-build-it pipeline. Yes, David "ridiculous pseudo-science garbage" "I do not think the science clearly supports global warming" Vitter. New bill will be introduced to strip the President of his power to delay the construction, handing that power back to congress.
    Keystone XL, you mean?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34

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    I'm not a Ron Paul supporter or a rabid hater either. He's just at the fringes of my peripheral, but this article gave me pause. How significant is this? Is it just tangential bullshit or is it concern-worthy?

    http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane...and-neo-nazis/
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #35
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I thought that headline was misleading and I didn't think the article itself actually reported on anything Ron Paul said or did... only people who support Ron Paul.

    I don't think a politician has absolute control over the loonies that may jump on his/her bandwagon.

    And the guy who wrote the email should learn to spell and proofread before he clicks "send".

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...
    My question to the Paulistas is how would further deregulation and laissez faire market forces remedy this situation, what is the market correction which could be expected to follow from libertarian economic policy as applied to this problem? Now, I dont want any vague "away back when..." narratives, no radical policies about every man and his dog being permitted to print up their own currencies provided they can get others to trust its value, no return to gold standards, no invisible hand promises. Basically cut the campaign message crap and tell me what remains.
    First I gotta say, Wow, are you smart!

    Second, in answer to your question - and I don't know if I am a Paulista or not - I believe in the American Free Enterprise system the way it was founded.
    Now I haven't been paying very close attention, but in my opinion greed and lack of morals and ethics is killing the American Economy.
    Free Enterprise used to be self-regulated because people were self-regulated.
    I don't think the people under the age of 45 were brought up with the same morals of the previous generations.
    In my opinion, business decisions are being made based on different standards than they used to be based on.
    The moral decline of America is going to be its undoing, in my opinion.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I'm not a Ron Paul supporter or a rabid hater either. He's just at the fringes of my peripheral, but this article gave me pause. How significant is this? Is it just tangential bullshit or is it concern-worthy?

    http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane...and-neo-nazis/
    I didn't put much stock into the claims that Obama was an extremist because of his association with Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. I don't think I'll put much stock into this, either. If Ron Paul won the election and tried to appoint a Nazi or KKK member to his cabinet, then I'd be concerned, but does anyone actually believe that's likely?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    First I gotta say, Wow, are you smart!

    Second, in answer to your question - and I don't know if I am a Paulista or not - I believe in the American Free Enterprise system the way it was founded.
    Now I haven't been paying very close attention, but in my opinion greed and lack of morals and ethics is killing the American Economy.
    Free Enterprise used to be self-regulated because people were self-regulated.
    I don't think the people under the age of 45 were brought up with the same morals of the previous generations.
    In my opinion, business decisions are being made based on different standards than they used to be based on.
    The moral decline of America is going to be its undoing, in my opinion.
    Am I to understand that you're exhonorating the economic system, the free enterprise system as you understand it, of blame and instead placing blame for the current crisis with the ethics of the individuals acting within it? If you are, and that's how I read it sorry if I'm mistaken, then I got a couple of points for you:

    - The free enterprise system takes as its corner stone greed and a lack of morals, it positively requires that those are the motive force of all individuals and the prevailing social character. Adam Smith, I do believe and do so with no sense of contradiction despite professing socialist views, believed that this was an objective reality and the only thing an economy could do is hope to harness greed for the common good, economics was a sort of alchemy, turning the lead or base metal of basic motives into socially beneficial gold. I agree with you that present generations have a different moral compass to previous ones but that sounds more akin to an ethical socialism than capitalism or free enterprise.

    - Free enterprise I presume is free in the sense of not regulated by any external authority or expectation besides supply, demand, competition, price signals, the calculation of market forces etc. Well, I dont see how this has worked to date and I'm still not clear about how its going to work "after the revolution", that kind of talk sounds like the ill fated promises of the bolsheviks to their socialist supporters that the "state will wither away" or things of that ilk.

    - I'm familiar with the argument that the free markets are akin to a car being blamed for the consequences of drink driving, ie its the driver/individuals who are the culprits and not the innocent means/mode of transport, I think its wrong in every sense, it makes more sense to argue that a driver is not culpable for being behind the wheel of a run away car whose breaks and steering have never been properly calibrated to begin with.

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I have a friend in England who also views the Free Enterprise system the way you do. It may be that way now... indeed, that's what's the matter with it... but that's not the way it started out. Greed and lack of integrity were NOT its cornerstones. We may just have to agree to disagree on that point. My perspective is vastly different from yours, but I am 53 years of age, so I suspect that has a lot to do with it. And the US system is different from what you have been used to.

    Of all the other economics systems that have been tried by man, yes, I believe the Free Enterprise system is the best. It is not necessary to be greedy to use F.E. properly. What IS required is the desire to serve your fellow man and offer a fair product for a fair price and to treat others as you would have them treat you.

    Fire can be used for good or for evil. Yes, I do not blame the F.E. system for greed.

  10. #40
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Define free enterprise.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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