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    Default Bonobo Politics and Religion

    I personally think anarcho-communism is representative of humans in their most primitive and natural state as is observed in the egalitarian and matriarchal society's of our closest hominid relative, the bonobo chimps. I think the conception of property is actually a religious idea that has lead to the manifestation of capitalism, and ultimately to the free market ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I personally think anarcho-communism is representative of humans in their most primitive and natural state as is observed in the egalitarian and matriarchal society's of our closest hominid relative, the bonobo chimps. I think the conception of property is actually a religious idea that has lead to the manifestation of capitalism, and ultimately to the free market ideology.
    Yes... well, you are young. I hope.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    Yes... well, you are young. I hope.
    Instead of an ad hominem would you care to make a logical argument as to the fault of my argument?

    I'm honestly starting to think capitalism and the free market are actually theological concepts, since their basis seems to be that of Creator/ethical ordained rights to own property. In essence, they aren't even natural aside from territorial rights won by conquest. From a logical standpoint, it is apparent that conflict is inevitable based on our need to compete for limited space and resources, and ultimately the most successful animals are those which form cohesive groups and acquire territory by force. Much like America has done. In essence, a natural market is the opposite of a free market, because the former requires coercion or force and the latter is dependent upon an ethical implicit agreement to respect the concept of "property". As such, I believe capitalism and the free market are constructs meant to abate the natural course for a world that favors individuals. This seem highly counterintuitive since individuals are still prone to follow the natural course and form cohesive groups which will conquer via coercion and force unless they are compelled by moral or ethical reasons not to do so. Therefore, the free market is simply a theological construct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Instead of an ad hominem would you care to make a logical argument as to the fault of my argument?
    I think that you do well enough by yourself without me adding to the critique, since the argument you provide reads like a reductio ad absurdum. I applued your self-critical attitude.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    I think that you do well enough by yourself without me adding to the critique, since the argument you provide reads like a reductio ad absurdum. I applued your self-critical attitude.
    Please, feel free to dispute my original claim so as to prove your point.

    "From a logical standpoint, it is apparent that conflict is inevitable based on our need to compete for limited space and resources, and ultimately the most successful animals are those which form cohesive groups and acquire territory by force."

    Otherwise, please keep your unsubstantiated commentary to yourself. I prefer intelligent discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Please, feel free to dispute my original claim so as to prove your point.
    Thank you, because before I didn't feel free to dispute your original claim, and it is so nice of you to give me permission. However, I am puzzled, surely successful claims are those which are protected from criticism and whose proponents use force to quell dispute? I mean, isn't your kind invitation for me to dispute your original claim unnatural?

    Otherwise, please keep your unsubstantiated commentary to yourself. I prefer intelligent discussion.
    Perhaps you might get to listen to one sometime.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    Thank you, because before I didn't feel free to dispute your original claim, and it is so nice of you to give me permission. However, I am puzzled, surely successful claims are those which are protected from criticism and whose proponents use force to quell dispute? I mean, isn't your kind invitation for me to dispute your original claim unnatural?
    That sounds like codswallop argument. I will remind you that my orignial claim was...

    "From a logical standpoint, it is apparent that conflict is inevitable based on our need to compete for limited space and resources, and ultimately the most successful animals are those which form cohesive groups and acquire territory by force."

    Now please address the claim, otherwise it will simply prove you had no basis to declare my argument is reductio. Since all you have managed to do up to this point is make empty accusations, it would not surprise me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    That sounds like codswallop argument.
    I agree, fully. Complete and utter codswallop! Hardly even made sense, nor was it relevent to much of, well, anything really. I mean, what would possess me to write something so stupid? Oops! Don't answer that.

    Now please address the claim, otherwise it will simply prove you had no basis to declare my argument is reductio. Since all you have managed to do up to this point is make empty accusations, it would not surprise me.
    Look Kiddo, (sorry, but I just really wanted to write that) a question is not an accusation, and I think that you would do well to not confuse the two. How exactly would you like me to address your claim? I am, quite honestly, baffled by your kind invitation for me to dispute this claim, though I thank you again for giving me permission to challenge it, if I should wish. That noble act says a lot about you, I think.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    I agree, fully. Complete and utter codswallop! Hardly even made sense, nor was it relevent to much of, well, anything really. I mean, what would possess me to write something so stupid?

    Look Kiddo, (sorry, but I just really wanted to write that) a question is not an accusation, and I think that you would do well to not confuse the two. How exactly would you like me to address your claim? I am, quite honestly, baffled by your kind invitation for me to dispute this claim, though I thank you again for giving me permission to challenge it, if I should wish. That noble act says a lot about you, I think.
    No need. I declare victory. You cannot provide a logical basis for your claim that my claim was reductio, nor an intelligent criticism to my original arguments. I only offered you the opportunity since you demonstrated that you prefer personal attacks to voluntarily providing intelligent discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I personally think anarcho-communism is representative of humans in their most primitive and natural state as is observed in the egalitarian and matriarchal society's of our closest hominid relative, the bonobo chimps. I think the conception of property is actually a religious idea that has lead to the manifestation of capitalism, and ultimately to the free market ideology.
    it might be natural in small tribal settings.

    but our society is incredibly far removed from that. i think capitalism seems quite natural for societies of our size.

    commune like life seems incredibly inefficient for groups of people over a few million. (actually, probably much smaller)

    and property (the concept) seems incredibly natural -- why, from a natural selection standpoint, let someone take a resource you have? life is basically a giant battle for resources. those with the best resources pass their genes on most often.

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