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  1. #21
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Once again- why does it matter where we came from socially- shouldn't the future count more?


    Sorry- I just thought that was a relevant point that was being completely ignored in an INFJ-INFJ argument
    no i agree with you.

    it doesn't matter where we came from really.

    in fact, i think everything is "natural". i'm confused about what kiddo means when he uses the word.

    i really need to know the definition you're using, kiddo.

  2. #22
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Once again- why does it matter where we came from socially- shouldn't the future count more?


    Sorry- I just thought that was a relevant point that was being completely ignored in an INFJ-INFJ argument
    That is exactly the point I addressed in my argument. This is purely observational. The past tells us where we are going to end up if we don't find a different way. The only argument I am willing to make is humans have a responsiblity to this planet to limit their population but that idea goes completely contrary to theological principles such as capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #23
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    I love INFJs! You both agree with me and yet have spent the past page or so disagreeing with each other!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #24
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    no i agree with you.

    it doesn't matter where we came from really.

    in fact, i think everything is "natural". i'm confused about what kiddo means when he uses the word.

    i really need to know the definition you're using, kiddo.
    Natural means what is observed in nature. It is observed in nature that bonobos form egalitarian and matriarchal societies that compete against other bonobo societies. Since they are our closest hominid relative in terms of genetics, it is probably safe to assume that we are programmed in much the same way. However we have developed concepts based on supernatural principles, those which are not observed in nature, such as the concept of "property". These concepts are unnatural, since they are not observed in nature. There is no "property" in nature, only territory which is earned and kept via force and coercion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #25
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    so at what point in human history did we do the first "unnatural" thing?

    i say, if it happens, it's natural.

    and even if i use your definition, since humans live in an unnatural state, why should we be held to standards of what's natural?


    p.s. are you a dualist?

  6. #26
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    so at what point in human history did we do the first "unnatural" thing?
    The first time we observed something we couldn't explain in nature and so we developed a supernatural explanation for it.

    i say, if it happens, it's natural.
    I don't think there is a dictionary in the world that would define it that vaguely, but whatever works for ya. It might not help you when people are talking about "natural" things.

    and even if i use your definition, since humans live in an unnatural state, why should we be held to standards of what's natural?
    It's this little thing called evolution. There aren't any standards, like in the theological point of view, only the reality of our own biology and our inherent drives to survive and procreate.

    p.s. are you a dualist?
    What do you mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #27
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I can say with 87% certainty that kiddo is wrong on at least a 1/3 of the fronts without reading any of this thread.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #28
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    The first time we observed something we couldn't explain in nature and so we developed a supernatural explanation for it.
    how is it unnatural to try to explain things? a by-product of our evolution is a need to explain things...

    I don't think there is a dictionary in the world that would define it that vaguely, but whatever works for ya. It might not help you when people are talking about "natural" things.
    other definitions are inconsistent.

    It's this little thing called evolution. There aren't any standards, like in the theological point of view, only the reality of our own biology and our inherent drives to survive and procreate.
    well, evolution got us where we are now. so how is it unnatural? you're the one applying the standards.

    What do you mean?
    do you think there's something fundamentally different about humans, like that we have a soul or something? or are we just some random animal.

    Dualism & - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  9. #29
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I can say with 87% certainty that kiddo is wrong on at least a 1/3 of the fronts without reading any of this thread.
    Why have I not put you on ignore yet?

    Honestly, I have no respect for people who make unsubstantiated claims like that simply to flout their own arrogance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #30
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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