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  1. #1
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Default Hypocrisy: Evangelicals and Newt Gingrich

    I don't mind people with different political views. I think they're wrong, but that doesn't mean that they're bad people. But here's what I do mind: hypocrisy. Now I know nobody is perfectly consistent with their beliefs, but this is ridiculous.

    A major point of the right wing evangelicals is the "prevention of moral decay", whatever that means. Within that there is the "sanctity of marriage", mostly having to do with gay marriage. The evangelical conservatives have apparently decided to go for Newt Gingrich. This is a guy who has been married three times. If anything is threatening the sanctity of marriage it's this guy.

    I feel like it goes to show that evangelical conservatives don't really care about "moral decay"; they care about their taxes being lowered. Now I wouldn't mind this if they really thought that it would improve the economy: for example, even though I disagree with (almost) everything Ron Paul stands for, I like him because he really believes what he is saying. But their willingness to abandon one of their core principles for a candidate such as Newt makes me question their motives highly.

    On top of this, it really gives Christianity a bad name. I'm a Christian and a liberal. Not one of those postmodern ones that just thinks Jesus is a cool guy either. I believe that Christianity is completely, objectively true. Now I guess I'm a hypocrite too, since I can't say I really live my life like it's true, so maybe I don't have much weight in my argument here. But nonetheless, it's things like this that give Christians a horrible name.

    Edit:
    I don't want to start a discussion about the truth of Christianity here. Well thought out and calm debate about politics kindly requested. POLITICS ONLY GUYS.
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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    First off, WHAT? Religious fundamentalists aren't rational beings? ALERT THE INTERNET

    Second, getting divorced and remarried doesn't mean you have loose morals and that you're threatening the sanctity of marriage. If you want to show that Newt is threatening the sanctity of marriage, you need to find some more compelling evidence like comments he's made that reveal his attitude toward marriage. He's allegedly said some gnarly shit.

    Seems to me that Evangelicals care about electing someone they identify as being "one of them." Whoever does a better job at identifying himself with that group has their vote. The criteria, I would guess, have more to do with social policy than economic policy. I think it's amusing that you're starting to question the Evangelicals' motives.

    Also, I think Ron Paul is a douche with almost zero charisma and terribly poor media skills. Every time he talks, even in front of his own supporters, I just want him to STFU. Personally, I don't want my politicians to be religious people. I think it leads to risky, erratic decision-making.

  3. #3
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Seems to me that Evangelicals care about electing someone they identify as being "one of them." Whoever does a better job at identifying himself with that group has their vote. The criteria, I would guess, have more to do with social policy than economic policy. I think it's amusing that you're starting to question the Evangelicals' motives.
    Oh believe me, this isn't the first time.
    It's dumb though when they want someone who is "one of them" and they take Newt Gingrich, who is hardly a Christian poster boy. Several representatives reportedly hated him because he was really annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Also, I think Ron Paul is a douche with almost zero charisma and terribly poor media skills. Every time he talks, even in front of his own supporters, I just want him to STFU.
    Oh, I think Ron Paul is an asshole, I just also think he believes what he says for the most part. He seems like less of a hypocrite than other politicians.
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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmanyo View Post
    Oh believe me, this isn't the first time.
    It's dumb though when they want someone who is "one of them" and they take Newt Gingrich, who is hardly a Christian poster boy. Several representatives reportedly hated him because he was really annoying.
    The last election I voted for the lesser of two evils. Obama didn't really represent me, but I didn't have anyone better. I think the Evangenlicals are doing the same.


    Oh, I think Ron Paul is an asshole, I just also think he believes what he says for the most part. He seems like less of a hypocrite than other politicians.
    Maybe. But what about Santorum? Repulsive guy, but consistent...agreed?

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    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Maybe. But what about Santorum? Repulsive guy, but consistent...agreed?
    Don't know much about Rick. My favorite candidates were Heman Cain and Rick Perry, and they dropped out.

    If Ron Paul were born in a different situation, I bet he would be a revolutionary.
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Second, getting divorced and remarried doesn't mean you have loose morals and that you're threatening the sanctity of marriage. If you want to show that Newt is threatening the sanctity of marriage, you need to find some more compelling evidence like comments he's made that reveal his attitude toward marriage. He's allegedly said some gnarly shit.
    yes, I was going to qualify comments from the OP -- the issue isn't that he's been married three times, since there are some innocuous reasons that might happen. However, it seems that none of them ended well, and it's clear he was shtupping future wife #3 over the course of six years while still married to wife #2 in their Washington apartment and even calling wife #2 while gf was still around. All while publicly ridiculing Clinton for his affair and excusing himself by making it an issue of lying under oath and ignoring the breaking of trust in what should have been one of the most precious of his relationships. There were comments made about whether a particular wife would look good as a politician's or president's wife, etc, and I think other things I don't feel like Googling right now. Anyway, Newt tends to smack of political convenience and personal entitlement and shifty excuses. For THAT reason, I think he's far more detrimental to the institution of marriage (because he takes it so lightly) than just the fact he's been married three times.

    Seems to me that Evangelicals care about electing someone they identify as being "one of them." Whoever does a better job at identifying himself with that group has their vote. The criteria, I would guess, have more to do with social policy than economic policy.
    Agreed. Not only is it a practical contrivance (because they'll have someone in office who supposedly supports their policies), but there's also a long precedent in the Bible about choosing leaders who reflect the proper values and have a "heart after God" rather than leaders who are popular or powerful by nature. It's unfortunate that they can mistake Newt's intellectualized values for values of the heart, since if you look at his marriages and early friendships, there's a lot of bad blood there now; his heart seems self-absorbed. So they're still screwing it up --mistaking the trees for the forest. If it would be convenient politically for Newt to appeal to a different set of values in the voting bloc, I'm sure he would.

    Personally, I don't want my politicians to be religious people. I think it leads to risky, erratic decision-making.
    Erratic? No, I find these sort predictable, and unable to see context, which means the country can get locked on a bad course from which they'll be unwilling to budge regardless what the data is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Maybe. But what about Santorum? Repulsive guy, but consistent...agreed?
    My point exactly.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    ALL politicians are hypocrites, let me tell you, I worked as a researcher in the carpenters union for 6 years after college and I met a TON of politicians, local and national, I met Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, the governor of CT, Mayors from all the towns, republicans, democrats, etc etc and they were all disgusting snake oil salesman types who made my skin crawl.

    I was such an idealist when I was younger too and they crushed it by being completely human, I hate that their humanity is an election issue! I think that makes the general public the biggest hypocrites of all. Who the fuck are we to judge Clinton or Gingrich for their personal lives? As though any 1 of us is a saint, we've all washed our dicks in someone kitchen sink at some time!
    Ground control to Major Tom

  8. #8

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    Generally I dont agree with evangelical christians and I definitely dont support Gingrich but there's something about the OP which grates with me, perhaps there is hypocrisy involved here but there's not much in the way of a properly informed view of what the opinions are and why they are being held in the first place.

    Its unfortunate that inflexible opinions, consistency and merely "believing what you say" are still enough to appeal to people, I'm pretty sure Joe Stalin and Adolf wherent play acting and believed what they were about.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Generally I dont agree with evangelical christians and I definitely dont support Gingrich but there's something about the OP which grates with me, perhaps there is hypocrisy involved here but there's not much in the way of a properly informed view of what the opinions are and why they are being held in the first place.
    Do you mean in terms of why the evangelicals are holding the values they do and voting the way they do?

    What is your understanding of evangelical values and the foundations they are built on, in constrast to the OP's understanding?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Do you mean in terms of why the evangelicals are holding the values they do and voting the way they do?

    What is your understanding of evangelical values and the foundations they are built on, in constrast to the OP's understanding?
    These parts of the OP:

    A major point of the right wing evangelicals is the "prevention of moral decay", whatever that means.
    A major part? Really? And its not clear what it means?

    My second issue is with this:

    Within that there is the "sanctity of marriage", mostly having to do with gay marriage. The evangelical conservatives have apparently decided to go for Newt Gingrich. This is a guy who has been married three times. If anything is threatening the sanctity of marriage it's this guy.
    There's clearly not an understanding of what the objections, which neednt necessarily be Christian, to so called gay "marriage" are if you consider that comparable or equivocal to the issue of divorce, its not.

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