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  1. #1
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Arrow 'Occupy Wall Street' is counter-motivational

    The Occupy Wall St. movement has a really pitiful look to my eyes, these people camping in the park, breathing the nasty metropolitan air, exposed to all the other elements while the real Wall St. people sit unperturbed in their glass towers.

    I think the protesters are all enamored of the protester concept, being out in the urban action, roughing it w/ 10, 12-day facial hair, hitting bongos etc. Little do they know the people who are actually pulling the electronic money cords are 4 million feet above them, in the air-conditioning playing solitaire. It's like little worms scurrying around your feet, that's probably how the tycoon executives feel. Gosh, we're so innocuous in this country. These protests are having a counter-motivational effect on me.

    They should be in hot-air balloons.

    How could the protesters be more motivational?
    RCUAI
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Protesting doesn't really do anything unless it's a massive number of people - hundreds of thousands or millions. They're going to have to do more than just protest if they want to have any sort of impact on society.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #3
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    I'm telling you, hot-air balloons... & myriad other small-engine aircraft
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

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    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    & I'm not talking about flying them into things (turrism), just flying them around. Like mosquitos circling the skyscrapers, irritating.
    RCUAI
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    You've got to be more than just irritating if you want to change things. You've got to hit people with power where it hurts - in their wallet.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I was happy with OWS up until I kept hearing participants say "we don't want to create a party and we won't negotiate with parties" along with not having leadership. That made their protests obviously pointless. They drew the attention, but apparently refused to do anything practical with it. Now while the thoughts of the protest linger, they just have to pray someone else takes advantage of it and makes something happen.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #7
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    OWS is still going on? Huh, I thought it died out weeks ago (or at the very least has lost all media coverage).

    To be honest, OWS wasn't going to go anywhere in the first place. In fact, I wrote an essay of the whole accont not to long ago in my blog; I think I'll post it to cover any relevant facts concerning the topic of this thread:

    Perhaps this essay is a little late in a certain sense; the Occupy Wall Street movement has been going on since September and many have already given commentary concerning it. But never the less, I feel as though to not comment on it would be a waste of opportunity to show not only my opinion on the matter, but also evidence that I was observant and aware of it. I'll start by mentioning that I take no full sides in this matter; I am not fully opposed to the OWS protestors nor their collective goal, but simultaneously I do not approve of their methods nor structure. I'll begin with what I like; underdogs. I am of the temperament that both loves and supports the little guy who fights through thick and thin against a higher form of power for just means; this applies to both individuals and societies. Thus, the idea of an entire nation (or at least thousands of people in this case) assembling together for a social cause is something that I would naturally find hope and inspiration in. And the goal they fight is also one of which I can share; that eternal struggle against economic disparity and the grand division of wealth that divides the haves and haves not. Additionally the movement itself also focused on non-violent means, preferring the power of peace and civility as opposed to reckless destruction (and while there was violence in some areas, most of the protest has generally been non-violent). But despite ideological admiration, what the protestors failed in was the pragmatic and organized approach to making their movement, well, and actual movement.

    Occupy wall street hasn't moved anywhere constructive since its start; no amount of great change has occurred as a result of this movement, and I find it doubtful that it will lead anywhere in the future. First and for most, the movement is lacking a crucial quality; a leader. There is no official representative in charge of anything, no one to lead the masses to their goal, no one to make important decisions regarding logistics or action. Any good movement will often have a figurehead at the very least, someone who embodies the core ideals of the group and unties them under one will. This is evident in multiple areas of history, such as Gandhi, or Martin Luther King Jr.. But OWS doesn't have an iconic leader with charisma and intelligence to direct their cause; it is a leaderless and disorganized mass of people arguing for change but not providing a representative to ensure any form of negotiation or communication. For all intents and purposes, people might as well protest from their comfy homes if they don't have a leader.

    Also, the logistics of the movement are a complete mess; although the main goal seems to be economic and political change (which is one hell of a general and vague goal) different sects of people arguing for a variety of things; this hampers the strength of the movement because without a clearly defining incentive, they can't be taken seriously nor can they hope to actually accomplish anything further. In addition no plans have been created as to what will occur if the protestors succeed, don't succeed, are offered negotiations, etc.. Without someone to say what their next phase of action will be, they'll be stuck in the 'protest' phase indefinitely. So far all we have are thousands of college kids and beatniks dicking around major cities wanting social change but doing nothing constructive to see it done; it's all bark and no bite.

    In addition the image that they convey is one that has seriously, is not completely, hurt their chances at succeeding at anything. Most protestors have painted themselves as young, naive, far-liberal, chaotic, rule-breaking, lazy college-age kids demanding social change as though we were in the depression. Yes, the economy is in the toilet, but when 25% of the nation is homeless and sitting outside soup kitchens, then a call for action might be more justified. Regardless, even if the bad economy warrants such social revolution, they are going to get it as much as their going to get respect from most other politicians. Politics isn't just sharp dressed men in government buildings.

    And even if the OWS protestors were to somehow succeed in their goals, what could they possibly hope to achieve? They believe that the can somehow bring economic prosperity to the nation, but their means of doing so may only further hurt the nation. If I remember correctly, many OWS protestors wanted to implement left-wing economic policies that would border on complete and utter socialism. Now I'm not against welfare nor am I proponent for laissez-faire economics, but socialist policies that border on communism don't work and would only further worsen things. If anything, although capitalism has gotten us into this economic mess, it can get us out of it; business need to generate more jobs, which gives people more work, which allows people to but more, which strengthens business, ad nauseum. But major redistribution of wealth, although not the worst idea ever, may only do more harm than good.

    Overall, Occupy Wall Street looks like a pointless revenge of the sheeple masses; the fruitless proletarian uprising. But don't get me wrong, it's not just the protestors who deserve criticism, for those against them can be open to criticism as well.

    First off, the police. Yes, they're doing their job, arresting non-violent protesters who are protesting illegally (although the idea of legally protesting sounds fundamentally absurd, but that's another matter entirely); however the endless series of arrests have only to further worsen things. For one, it gives fuel for the protesters' cause; by trying to suppress them the protestors it gives them a sense of justification in their goal; the 'man' is actively trying to shut them down, thus they have all the more reason to continue rebelling. Now had the police (as well as the politicians and media) just ignored the protestors, this probably would have all ended weeks ago. Without so much as any real recognition from those they were fighting against the protestors would have seen little reason to continue their goal; they would have become bored by the sheer lack of progress and stultification, and subsequently dispersed and ceased activity. But as long as the police fight back, so will the protestors; and if the police were to stop arrests now, then the protestors would consider themselves victorious (although, theoretically speaking if the police were to cease all arrests and give the protestors a supposed 'victory' then they might eventually disperse and break up without anything tangible left to fight against). In addition, police brutality in several cases (such as Occupy Oakland and that event where a line of sitting protestors were pepper sprayed) only further makes the opposition against OWS look authoritative and evil; not exactly a good way to combat a mass social cause of self-righteousness.

    But it's not just police who are a problem; it's also those who generally approve of the status quo as well as the great division of wealth in this country. Although the OWS protestors may be ineffective at the very least they care about the bad state and twisted structure of the economy; however there are many in the U.S. who seem to think that 1% owning almost 25% of the nation's wealth is a good thing, as though the super-rich were extremely beneficial to everyone. Now while some of the richest people in the world may be charitable, I highly doubt that is the case for all of them; for all those who buy themselves luxurious mansions and jet airliners there are at least ten more people who need work of some sort in order to earn wealth. Perhaps incentives such as extra money and tax breaks for all new businesses would help, or progressive income taxes to transfer money from the super-rich into job investment programs; either way, anything is better than just allowing perfectly good money to sit around being unused because of the selfish.

    And hell, if drastic action is really necessary to bring about economic and social change, wimpy protests aren't going to get the job done at all. From a theoretical perspective (and note: I'm not advocating this) terrorism and espionage tactics would be more pragmatic; in order to oppose great injustice, sometimes a little violence is needed. Now of course that would damage the reputation and image of the OWS protestors, but maybe if they were being led by a group that carried out intelligent warfare tactics while the protestors tore up areas of civilization, then maybe some progress might be made. Or they might just get shot at by the police; aggressive war maneuvers never do end well.

    Either way, Occupy Wall Street is simply a waste of time. It feels good knowing that people are willing to stand up for social justice and the good of the nation, but logically it won't lead to anything constructive nor realistic. time will only tell how much longer is lasts.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    The Occupy Wall St. movement has a really pitiful look to my eyes, these people camping in the park, breathing the nasty metropolitan air, exposed to all the other elements while the real Wall St. people sit unperturbed in their glass towers.

    I think the protesters are all enamored of the protester concept, being out in the urban action, roughing it w/ 10, 12-day facial hair, hitting bongos etc. Little do they know the people who are actually pulling the electronic money cords are 4 million feet above them, in the air-conditioning playing solitaire. It's like little worms scurrying around your feet, that's probably how the tycoon executives feel. Gosh, we're so innocuous in this country. These protests are having a counter-motivational effect on me.

    They should be in hot-air balloons.

    How could the protesters be more motivational?
    One of the things they need to encourage is re-localization of argiculture and building self-sustainable communties, don't even play into the corporation's game. The mega corporations know alot of americans are extremely dependent on this rigged system they own. It will be intially uncomfortable and disruptive for alot of people(in developed nations like the US) to get off their tit, many people in the first-world nations don't know how to live off the land, grow their own food, make their own clothes, and just generally love their wasteful lifestyles and credit cards.

    I figured OWS was always more about pushing the culture and social conscienceness in a direction rather than having solid, concrete political goals. It seems like a reactionary movement against the predominant culture and status quo, somewhat like the hippie counterculture in the '60s against the rigid, conservative, conformist culture of post-war america.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Regarding the decentralization topic, we're headed in that direction when it comes to energy. The cost of solar energy continues to drop and, given the current trend, will be cheaper than electricity generated by coal by the end of this decade, and possibly sooner.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...o-solar-cells/

    Now we just need someone to develop an economical flywheel to store energy for use while the sun isn't shining.

    And people, please stop building houses out of wood. Use ICFs!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I was happy with OWS up until I kept hearing participants say "we don't want to create a party and we won't negotiate with parties" along with not having leadership. That made their protests obviously pointless. They drew the attention, but apparently refused to do anything practical with it. Now while the thoughts of the protest linger, they just have to pray someone else takes advantage of it and makes something happen.
    They need their own congress. a party can easily be hijacked and wouldn't hard at all with proper propaganda. There are a lot of people there that are ultimatly there for the same cause but have very different underlying oppinions so don't mistake popular oppinion for what's right. I'm sure someone will rise up soon, but if not with the look of the ecconomy this could just be a spark to a moth if the ecconomy goes down there will be momentum for movement
    1+1=3 OMFG

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