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  1. #31
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Qu'est-ce que c'est?
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pCZ5E5tn4I"]lolololol[/YOUTUBE]
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #32
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I have no problem with suicide and I don't see why people think it's a bad thing. Looking at the problem of suicide from an evolutionary perspective, it's really no different than being gay and never reproducing. Hopefully we'll have more suicides and more gays in the future.
    I don't think there's much wrong with it if someone's basically independent & free to choose their circumstance (because life-or-death is just another choice about circumstance), but in the cases of teenagers whose lives are structured for them, i think it is problematic.

    If your job sucks & everyone's harrassing you there, you can always quit even if the consequence is going hungry, but a lot of teenagers aren't old enough to drop out of school & many who are have parents who wouldn't let them. & since school & school situations are the things making them hate life, it's a problem that suicide is chosen as a preferable alternative-- since they had no other alternatives (at that time at least).

    Not that some teenagers don't commit suicide out of rational nihilism, but I think for most it's an emotional response to forced circumstances.
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    "Man is free, but his freedom ceases when he has no faith in it."

  3. #33
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    youtube video
    That dude's not french!

    ----------------------
    As far as your earlier quote I can't believe anyone (still) believes in that kind of pro-eugenics thinking. You make it sound like homosexuals are evolutionary rejects and people who commit suicide are weak and further 'weaken the gene pool'. With that kind of thinking let's all hope that countries keep going to war and selectively use weapons of mass destruction to keep the gene pool in tip top shape and open up more resources for the rest of us.

    I think part of the point of this thread was pointing to how factors hit different segments of the population and cause pressure to commit suicide. We're looking at social factors not 'individual weakness'. Racism and poverty are valid social factors that contribute to an individual's depression and at least one school of thought in psychology contributes racism to higher rates of depression in the African American community for instance.

    I think in your comment both you and Elfboy miss the point of a discussion around GLBT suicide. It's not about 'emo homos being mentally weak and deselecting themselves from the gene pool, thank god' it's about how society adds more pressure and less pressure to different groups depending on how relatively privileged and autonomous they are. And also how some groups have more and less access to resources. Both those things people are born into and is not a reflection of their individual merits or ability to contribute healthy DNA to the species.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  4. #34
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    That dude's not french!

    ----------------------
    As far as your earlier quote I can't believe anyone (still) believes in that kind of pro-eugenics thinking. You make it sound like homosexuals are evolutionary rejects and people who commit suicide are weak and further 'weaken the gene pool'. With that kind of thinking let's all hope that countries keep going to war and selectively use weapons of mass destruction to keep the gene pool in tip top shape and open up more resources for the rest of us.

    I think part of the point of this thread was pointing to how factors hit different segments of the population and cause pressure to commit suicide. We're looking at social factors not 'individual weakness'. Racism and poverty are valid social factors that contribute to an individual's depression and at least one school of thought in psychology contributes racism to higher rates of depression in the African American community for instance.

    I think in your comment both you and Elfboy miss the point of a discussion around GLBT suicide. It's not about 'emo homos being mentally weak and deselecting themselves from the gene pool, thank god' it's about how society adds more pressure and less pressure to different groups depending on how relatively privileged and autonomous they are. And also how some groups have more and less access to resources. Both those things people are born into and is not a reflection of their individual merits or ability to contribute healthy DNA to the species.
    That's too many assumptions to respond to. I'll just restate my points and add some new ones or just add some new ones, or just restate my previous points or whatever I feel like doing after this sentence.

    - I think that people have the right to end their lives how they see fit.

    -I don't think that the media is responsible for homosexual suicides.

    -I don't think bullying directed at homosexuals is worse now than twenty years ago, but it does seem to be better as alternatives to traditional relationships become socially accepted(personal experiences, not sure what the stats would say, if they existed).

    -I don't think homosexuals are a weakness in the species, since humanity is not currently facing a bottleneck. Homosexuality would be a weakness if we were facing extinction or the population was very low.

    -I do think homosexuality and suicide are both potential positives for the species, although suicide is probably a negative occurrence on a microcosmic level.

    -Overpopulation is of great concern to me(for reasons that don't quite fit into this thread), so I often reply to posts from that perspective. Although the reasons for my concern shouldn't be noted here, it's within my rights to body slam a topic from whichever perspective I choose to convince myself to believe in at a given moment. Also, when I hear about increases of asexuals and homosexuals in the population it makes my step a tad bit lighter and the sun seems to shine at unreasonable intensity.

    -I don't think they should be treated like second-class citizens, etc, etc, right to die, etc, etc, too bad people had kids and didn't have time to properly raise them, etc, etc, welfare state, shitty economy, etc, etc, not my fault, wish I could help, that's what happens when your political candidates are picked on the basis of electitbility and good looks, etc, etc, tv is the root of all evil, stop letting your kids watch movies that glorify suicide, smack them around a bit here and there so they don't get too carried away with fantasy worlds involving anime characters and then wake up one day to the realization that life is hard, it sucks half the time and being just a little bit different than everyone else may be too much to handle, etc.

    I've become accustomed to you replying to posts by adding tons of assumptions mixed with your own interpretations, so I don't even care that you padded my post with lots of crazy far-out shit that I can't relate to. I'm not elfboy and I didn't miss the point of the OP. There's nothing wrong with looking at topics from different angles.

    2 l8 4 moar replies, gudnite.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #35
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    2 l8 4 moar replies, gudnite.
    Well, thanks for finally clarifying. You do know I was seriously asking you to further explain your earlier comments, even if I was doing it in a tongue-in-cheek way? And that you totally blew it off?

    If you don't like "assumptions" maybe you should explain yourself better the first or second time around when someone asks for clarification. Or be more cognizant of the context of the topic and the controversial nature of certain subjects so you can avoid misunderstandings. 2-3 sentences now saves you 15-20 later.

    Just a suggestion
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  6. #36
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Well, thanks for finally clarifying. You do know I was seriously asking you to further explain your earlier comments, even if I was doing it in a tongue-in-cheek way? And that you totally blew it off?

    If you don't like "assumptions" maybe you should explain yourself better the first or second time around when someone asks for clarification. Or be more cognizant of the context of the topic and the controversial nature of certain subjects so you can avoid misunderstandings. 2-3 sentences now saves you 15-20 later.

    Just a suggestion
    omg, i didnt blow it off. sry was tired.

    You can prompt me to clarify in whichever way you choose, and I can reply to a post with 2-3 sentences if I choose to. It's the way of jungle.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #37
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    omg, i didnt blow it off. sry was tired.

    You can prompt me to clarify in whichever way you choose, and I can reply to a post with 2-3 sentences if I choose to. It's the way of jungle.
    Sure you can, but don't be surprised later if people "make assumptions" about what you are trying to say.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Thanks for the stats table. It ends at 2003 though and to me 2000 and beyond *feels* like the coverage shift period to be looking at. This is just Ni talking though. I think you're half-right on the bullying. As for the stats, I wonder how/if they classify drug overdoses.
    Facebook was founded in 2004. I believe the impact of social media has to be considered with an issue like this, so I'd want to see stats past 2003.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    Member Mr. TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    Okay, let's make it something else - 'overspending,' let's say.

    We could talk about overspending among women; among teenagers; among the Asian demographic; among self-identified liberals; among Baby Boomers; etc.... and while the general topic is overspending, we'd be discussing it in relation to a particular demographic.

    Posting a thread exploring the impact of the media on the gay suicide rate is just the topic, dude. Let it rest. Iwakar was very explicit about this. If you would like to discuss "media impact on suicide" in general, or for teenagers, or for Catholics, or for any other demographic, the forum is open to you doing so. I'm not sure why you have an issue with iwakar starting a thread on a topic of her particular choosing, except you've expressed a political discontent with such things repeatedly in the past.
    Well I agree with him on the whole gay issue. I see little to no reason why we can't just discuss suicide as a whole. Why limit this thread to gays? I mean sure you have to right too and you can do that if you please. But...Why? As he stated. It is not a gay issue. It is a human issue and should be treated as such. I feel like by just talking about gays your limiting the discussion.

    Overspending is completely different. I think thats a terrible comparison honestly. It can be related to any country and time or any location within the past hundreds of years in which countries existed and each can be discussed extensively. Suicide is always a basic human issue which should not be limited to some demographic.
    Glance into the world just as though time were gone: and everything crooked will become straight to you.

  10. #40
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. TickTock View Post
    Well I agree with him on the whole gay issue. I see little to no reason why we can't just discuss suicide as a whole. Why limit this thread to gays? I mean sure you have to right too and you can do that if you please. But...Why? As he stated. It is not a gay issue. It is a human issue and should be treated as such. I feel like by just talking about gays your limiting the discussion.
    "... I see little to no reason why we can't just discuss economics as a whole. Why limit this thread to Germany? I mean sure you have to right too and you can do that if you please. But...Why? As he stated. It is not a German issue. It is a human issue and should be treated as such. I feel like by just talking about Germany your limiting the discussion. "

    Just because someone discusses German economics doesn't mean they are limiting the discussion, they are discussing the particular topic they want to discuss -- the economy of Germany. If they wanted to discuss the world economy in more detail, then that is what they would be discussing.

    You should be able to extrapolate from there.

    Overspending is completely different. I think thats a terrible comparison honestly. It can be related to any country and time or any location within the past hundreds of years in which countries existed and each can be discussed extensively. Suicide is always a basic human issue which should not be limited to some demographic.
    That's an arbitrary distinction on your part as well.

    I don't even really care much about the topic, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it from a logical perspective.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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