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  1. #81
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I picked that up from you a long time ago.
    Well, with you in particular, yes, you picked up right. At least, as far as this "serious" shit goes.

    I can easily discuss stuff with you that isn't so serious. Like books or something.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I picked that up from you a long time ago.
    You said something similar to me above in this thread. What's up with that?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #83
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    You said something similar to me above in this thread. What's up with that?
    I'm a good judge of character is what's up with that.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well, with you in particular, yes, you picked up right. At least, as far as this "serious" shit goes.

    I can easily discuss stuff with you that isn't so serious. Like books or something.
    Perhaps I should consider it a matter of typology.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm a good judge of character is what's up with that.
    What always happens on these forums when you start flipping shit at other members?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #86
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    What always happens on these forums when you start flipping shit at other members?
    I dont understand what you mean by this.

  7. #87
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestripes View Post
    i do agree with the idea behind the cartoon in the OP in that feminist perspectives can differ. veiling can be seen as oppressive, at least by many non-muslims, but the excessive exposure of a woman's body can be seen the same way. both could imply that the woman is treated as an object - in the former case, one that belongs exclusively to her father or husband and should be hidden from everyone else (which restricts the woman's freedom to move around and dress as she pleases), and in the latter, one that should be placed on public display for everyone to judge or admire (which deprives the woman of her physical privacy and may distort her body image and self-esteem).
    To answer to the OP, I'd say that comparing the two attitudes and saying they are equivalent, even for a second, is deeply hypocritical.
    The fact is you can't separate these kind of facts from the context in which they arise.

    Western women have the choice: they can dress in any way they want whether burqa or bikini.
    Women in predominantly muslim countries don't.
    I've spent more than a year in a country that is supposed to be the most open, the most tolerant of all Arab countries, and yet, I have to confirm that compared to Western countries, women are oppressed in every possible way. They are not allowed to go anywhere they want, even during daytime. They are not as free as Muslim men are: it's as simple as that, and everybody, including the majority of local women, will consider that it's "normal" -they accept their alienation-, that it is their destiny and that males are superior in every possible way (although some Moroccan women try to fight courageously against this lawful oppression, but it's becoming increasingly harder to do so when Islamists win every free election that occured in those countries).

    It's not even possible to compare the two situations. It would be like comparing Gay rights here and there.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #88
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    To answer to the OP, I'd say that comparing the two attitudes and saying they are equivalent, even for a second, is deeply hypocritical.
    The fact is you can't separate these kind of facts from the context in which they arise.

    Western women have the choice: they can dress in any way they want whether burqa or bikini.
    It's not about the bikini. Few if any women in western countries don't feel oppressed by the necessity of looking like a super model. In bluestripe's words, it "deprives the woman of her physical privacy and may distort her body image and self-esteem," except I would change "physical privacy." In a cultural sense it deprives a woman of choice by controlling her at a psychological weak spot - the natural need to appear attractive to potential mates. That may sound old-fashioned but it's obviously true by of the prevalence of disorders such as anorexia.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #89
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That may sound old-fashioned but it's obviously true by of the prevalence of disorders such as anorexia.
    I'm sorry, but you cannot compare anorexia prevalence and systematic discrimination because of the law, the religion and the dominant male chauvinist culture.

    Whatever the way you try to rationalize it, it's not possible to hide such facts. In Muslim countries, women don't enjoy the same rights as men do. And therefore, they can't be as free as men, they don't have the same options that they have.

    The day the law will treat them equally with men, we shall see. But we are very far away from this desirable outcome.

    End of the debate.

    _____

    As a matter of fact, I'd even dare to say that on the average Arab men are much more obsessed with sex than European ones, hence the way they treat women and force them to wear hidjabs or worse... They fear their own desire, hence the high prevalence of sexual harassments, rapes and violent behaviours here, despite the official islamist propaganda.
    Not everybody are like this, but many are... especially those who pretend to be very religious!

    Hypocrisy!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #90
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I'm sorry, but you cannot compare anorexia prevalence and systematic discrimination because of the law, the religion and the dominant male chauvinist culture.

    Whatever the way you try to rationalize it, it's not possible to hide such facts. In Muslim countries, women don't enjoy the same rights as men do. And therefore, they can't be as free as men, they don't have the same options that they have.

    The day the law will treat them equally with men, we shall see. But we are very far away from this desirable outcome.

    End of the debate.
    The cartoon has nothing to do with women's legal rights and everything to do with men's oppressive societal expectations regarding women.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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