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  1. #61
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Alright. Let me make my point more clear, then.

    People always use the murder argument to avoid discussion of ethical subjectivity because they think murder is something that is unquestionably bad. Murder doesn't have anything to do with good and bad. It's only relationship is with the law.
    Who tries to avoid discussion of ethical subjectivity?

    I would suggest that exactly the converse is true, no one wishes to discuss ethical objectivity and it is treated as less valid or real a concept than subjectivity.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bible
    If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
    What delightful words to read to every little boy and girl before they fall asleep.
    No doubt, sugar plums and candy canes will dance in their dreams . . .

  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    As far as all the OT stuff:

    The Jews and the mainstream Christians both seem to realize that those sorts of rules were specifically fashioned for Israel at that time and place in history, surrounded by gentile nations who were capable of doing as much to them. Israel was supposed to be a nation set apart, the world was brutal then -- wars, desecrations, pillaging, plagues and disease [why do we think all those cleanliness rules existed, and expelling those who might become infected by sexual or physical disease? They didn't have hospitals or medicine or vaccines --- plagues were serious matters, capable of destroying the nation very quickly if they got out of control], and then there's the whole sense of them losing their spiritual values due to influx of other beliefs.

    So it's kind of been a gray area for Christians in terms of how to read the OT and determine what rules were cultural and relevant to Israel in terms of their specifics, whereas what rules are relevant today only in their principles. Even the literalists don't stone people in the street, note... it's typically just the few fringe groups that try to take things to that degree of literal application. And while I am not Jewish, from those I've talked to, they seem to place the OT stories even in more context rather than taking them as literal aspects that should be applied specifically today -- basically, the events and laws are set in history, and this is a different culture and time now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    What delightful words to read to every little boy and girl before they fall asleep.
    No doubt, sugar plums and candy canes will dance in their dreams . . .
    ... right before the candy cane stabs them in the eye! ARRRG!!! EEEEP!!! ARRRRG!!! RUN AWAY!!!!!!

    Interestingly, in Baptist church as a child, I can't ever remember hearing the story about how Samson was charged with cutting off the foreskins of a thousand Philistines in order to prove his mettle. FOr some reason, it tends to get skipped over.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Are you serious? What is a good and bad person?
    This is a much more worthwhile question than "what is a good or bad religion". The "best" religion can be used as justification for evil in the hands of the wrong person.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #66
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware Americans couldn't be Muslim.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  7. #67
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I wasn't aware Americans couldn't be Muslim.
    There's only one American muslim, and he's in the White House
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  8. #68
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    There's only one American muslim, and he's in the White House
    Funny - I could have sworn my intern last summer was one. Perhaps she just wore headscarves as a fashion statement.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #69
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I wasn't aware Americans couldn't be Muslim.
    Catholics can't be Americans either.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Catholics can't be Americans either.
    Yeah, the Kennedy assasination was meant to send a message

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