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  1. #31
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Touchy subject, reparations. One view is that the punitive reparations owed by Germany in WW1 led to the rise of Hitler and the start of WW2. Which was not the idea...

    A nice little summary: Reparations

    Maybe the idea is to let sleeping dogs lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yup. Making Germany the whipping boy for World War I ran their infrastructure into the ground, spurred anti-world sentiment, and didn't really help much otherwise.
    Nope, I am not talking about reparations. I am talking about loans between allies.

  2. #32
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Geoff - you're right, it is a bit of a mystery!

    There are lots of references to German debt (which appears to have been paid off in 1971) but allies debt pre-dating WW2 is lost in the mist.

    Only a guess, but it is possible the debt was restructured in the Bretton Woods agreements and/or Marshall Plan.

    It wouldn't seem very rational to pump billions of dollars into Europe then at the same time call up old debts. The bigger political issue in the foreground at the time was the polarisation of Europe - I can only assume the debt issue played second fiddle to more pressing matters with the Soviets.

    PS What is your source of info?

  3. #33
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    You are a bit out of date with Northern Ireland - the Irish bubble has burst and the Irish economy seems to be spiralling downwards. I don't deny that it would be better for Northern Ireland to be more closely aligned with the country it is in - although personally I quite like the joint elected assembly as it seems to cut off the terrorism problem (if it was Irish there would be British loyalist terrorism to replace the IRA). But joining with Ireland isn't helpful in terms of economic reasons, not any more.
    "Ireland has the second highest per capita income of any country in the EU next to Luxembourg, and fourth highest in the world based on measurements of Gross Domestic Product (GDP)" - Economy of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Might be that the "celtic tiger" has slowed down a bit But it's still going strong, and definitely stronger than the UK.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #34
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    "Ireland has the second highest per capita income of any country in the EU next to Luxembourg, and fourth highest in the world based on measurements of Gross Domestic Product (GDP)" - Economy of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Might be that the "celtic tiger" has slowed down a bit But it's still going strong, and definitely stronger than the UK.
    Oh I see! We should rely on wikipedia for accurate country by country info, not-at-all biased by the people that write it up

    I picked this up in a recent discussion on forecasts done by a National banking meeting I attended.

    There's some commentary around a bit more up to date than wikipedia.. explaining that Ireland probably actually started to struggle about 5 years ago but nobody quite woke up to it.

    Here's some stuff to read :

    Economic Slump in the Emerald Isle: Ireland's Luck is Running Out - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

    One has to be very careful. Goverments and economists realise that the recession word is dangerous, so will never use it if they can get away with it. Preferring to talk about "subdued growth" because announcing an expected downturn is often a self fulfilling prophecy with the drop in confidence that results.

    Anyway, my point stands. Most analysts believe the UK and Irish economies are both heading for a bit of a downturn or recession (although currently both governments predict small amounts of growth). So the Celtic tiger is not the differentiator that it used to be.

    UK Govt forecast, average GDP growth forecast of 1.7% for 2008. Source : http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/...804forcomp.pdf 1.6% in 2009.

    By the way, your point about per capita is well made. But.. and it is an important one.. this is not average wealth. It appears Ireland is becoming increasingly polarised, with a bigger gulf between the richest and the poorest. Which is not to say that the UK hasn't suffered this too.. just that the increased per capita doesn't necessary help the Irishman in the street. It is also, just like the UK one, being distorted by the poor state of the US$ which makes the UK and Irish per capita figures both look better against the US than they really are.

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