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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Is democracy always a good thing?

    What do you think and why? Is it a result of theorising or direct experience?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    It isn't always a good thing because a majority of people may vote in such a way that would impede, rather than improve the circumstances of the group such a democracy represents, such as a nation or state.

    For example, many people support prohibition of various substances, despite the increase in addiction, crime, infant mortality, and poverty commonly caused as a result of the inevitable emergent markets for such substances.

  3. #3
    morose bourgeoisie
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    ^^these objections are the reason representative democracy exists. to temper the vacillations of demos.

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    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    No one could answer that from direct experience because no one has direct experience of always :P

    & democracy in the world I know seems next to meaningless-- it's changing the wallpaper in a room when different forces altogether are designing & modifying the building :P
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyDigestion View Post
    No one could answer that from direct experience because no one has direct experience of always :P

    & democracy in the world I know seems next to meaningless-- it's changing the wallpaper in a room when different forces altogether are designing & modifying the building :P
    Really? So you've never been part of a group in which a decision has had to be made, perhaps as basic as where to eat or drink, although perhaps your wall paper analogy does not quite fit to that instance, perhaps you dont think democracy has any meaning beyond government administration?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    It isn't always a good thing because a majority of people may vote in such a way that would impede, rather than improve the circumstances of the group such a democracy represents, such as a nation or state.

    For example, many people support prohibition of various substances, despite the increase in addiction, crime, infant mortality, and poverty commonly caused as a result of the inevitable emergent markets for such substances.
    People dont like you doing drugs so you think democracy is a bad thing? Hmm, right, OK.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    @FunnyDigestion That's a consequence of a representative democracy, when external forces control your representatives you are no longer represented.
    Direct democracy is always good, the aggregate of experiences, knowledge and wisdom of all human beings will always outperform the singular experiences of an individual, no matter how grand that individual is.
    The idea that a group will not represent themselves is based solely on the premise that mankind is incapable of guiding or caring for itself. This is cynical, this is wrong. We are an intelligent species, we care for each other, and we only do wrong to each other when misguided by irrepresentative forces that hold sway above us.
    A direct democracy is the best system of government, it allows unified direction coupled with equality.

    @Beargryllz The majority of people who support anti-drug prohibition have been lied to by false statistics and a cultural demonization campaign against drugs and their users. They have been misled, they would not have been if Nixon hadn't declared a war on drugs. This is an example of investing power in an individual whose interests are not the interests of the people.
    The only way to ensure that the interests of the people are met is to ensure that the power lies solely in the hands of the people.

  8. #8
    Senior Member FunnyDigestion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Really? So you've never been part of a group in which a decision has had to be made, perhaps as basic as where to eat or drink, although perhaps your wall paper analogy does not quite fit to that instance, perhaps you dont think democracy has any meaning beyond government administration?
    I was talking on the governmental scale. A group decision of the kind you're describing I would refer to as precisely that, a group decision, whereas democracy I consider to be a form of government. Government affects the very nature of people's lives (how they can & can't live, what they can & can't do), & democracy is supposed to be a type of government that results in people having the best lives.

    So I think it's trivial to describe democracy using the example of a simple group decision, because that has next to no effect on people's overall lives. Which connects to what I said about it being "next to meaningless"-- if the best example of democracy you can think of is a group making the choice of where to go eat, how important can it be? I think what the United States experiences today (I can't speak for other countries since I don't know enough about them) is a very faint outline of democracy, very flimsy. The entities with the most influence over people's lives are beyond the democratic choice, & their influence over the government is greater than the democratic process. So I don't think I know democracy much at all.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Short-term or long-term? And what type of democracy are we talking about (direct, representative, majoritarian, liberal, etc.)?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    Direct democracy is always good, the aggregate of experiences, knowledge and wisdom of all human beings will always outperform the singular experiences of an individual, no matter how grand that individual is.
    You're sure of this? Was your family a democracy? Are adults and children equals? What about generations? If the greater number have a particular experience, knowledge and wisdom mix which is contrary that of the minority or individual how does it influence things?


    @Beargryllz The majority of people who support anti-drug prohibition have been lied to by false statistics and a cultural demonization campaign against drugs and their users. They have been misled, they would not have been if Nixon hadn't declared a war on drugs. This is an example of investing power in an individual whose interests are not the interests of the people.
    The only way to ensure that the interests of the people are met is to ensure that the power lies solely in the hands of the people.
    Really? Perhaps those whoa are fans of drugs and drug users have been subject to false statistics and cultural valourisation? How can you tell?

    I've spent a lot of time around drugs and drugs users in my line of work, social work, there's really nothing to recommend it as a way of life and all of the early supposedly inaccurate sources of information I've found to be correct or more correct than positive spin to the contrary.

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