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  1. #21
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    In canada the pledge of aleigence is singing the national anthem. "we stand on guard for thee". Funny thing is most people don't know they are singing to defend the mistakes of politics, and not just what their vague idea of what a country is. I love my country, just not sure i love the people running it
    1+1=3 OMFG

  2. #22
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    The pledge of allegiance should not have any place in schools. It shouldn't even exist. It is silly.

  3. #23
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Well, yeah, I think it would be cool for kids to be able to say it in different languages. If you have a class of all white kids and one say- hispanic kid I don't see why everyone couldn't learn the Spanish/ Portuguese/whatever version as well and say it that way too. It would be a learning experience and encourage openness to diversity. We brag that America is a melting pot but we're not really a melting pot if people are going to make a stink about something like that. I'm on the line/ split about whether it should be mandatory in schools. Of course it's good for the kids to have a choice but at the same time, young kids are easily influenced and it could be just the "cool" thing to refuse or something their parents told them when they don't really have an idea of what it's all about. I have thought about that one but never came to a conclusion.

    As a side note, I was a really lucky kid who had friends from many cultures which my mother was very encouraging of. I was always mixing the American and foreign ones together and it was great because sleepovers would be mostly regular young girl stuff mixed in with a few lessons about other ways of life. I don't know about everybody else, but I personally would never change any of my multicultural experiences for purely Caucasian Christian American ones.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Well, yeah, I think it would be cool for kids to be able to say it in different languages. If you have a class of all white kids and one say- hispanic kid I don't see why everyone couldn't learn the Spanish/ Portuguese/whatever version as well and say it that way too. It would be a learning experience and encourage openness to diversity. We brag that America is a melting pot but we're not really a melting pot if people are going to make a stink about something like that. I'm on the line/ split about whether it should be mandatory in schools. Of course it's good for the kids to have a choice but at the same time, young kids are easily influenced and it could be just the "cool" thing to refuse or something their parents told them when they don't really have an idea of what it's all about. I have thought about that one but never came to a conclusion.

    As a side note, I was a really lucky kid who had friends from many cultures which my mother was very encouraging of. I was always mixing the American and foreign ones together and it was great because sleepovers would be mostly regular young girl stuff mixed in with a few lessons about other ways of life. I don't know about everybody else, but I personally would never change any of my multicultural experiences for purely Caucasian Christian American ones.
    Your post reminded me of this:

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlq1WNa8NOE&feature=related]Stewie[/youtube]
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I don't think that saying the pledge of allegiance should be mandatory as that does seem to go against free speech. However, I don't see anything wrong with mandating that schools set aside time for it and/or play it over the speaker. As bad as this sounds, it really is in the interest of a country to try to instill some kind of national patriotism in its residents regardless of whether or not they are old enough to understand. America doesn't really have anything else to stand on like ethnic pride, heritage, language, or religion That's why we always need an enemy or a major cultural shift. It's hard for us to have a national identity without being able to say "We aren't those guys. We're better." Otherwise we have to make ourselves feel like we're awesome and righteous, like being politically correct post-USSR.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #26

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    ^I do think our national identity is more closely associated with the idea that "democracy = freedom" rather than history, language, or affluence. "Entrepeneurial capitalists" is a damn close second... And both of these despite our citizens' right to lobby against both.

    For me the question becomes does our national definition of freedom align with an objective definition? The trouble is always with definitive parameters. And is our national commitment to freedom greater than our factional obsessions with promoting our own religious or idealogical agendas? This is a dispute I habitually encounter with my southern, Christian relations who, despite believing they are the most American (?), feel freedom stops at the call to serve a Christian god.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #27
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I think the pledge of allegiance is actually pretty disgusting. No, I don't think it should be recited by little kids who have no idea what it means, especially not with "under God" involved. I just can't see it as anything besides a brainwashing tool.

    That being said, if we have to say it, it should definitely be in English. Teaching in other languages is a slippery slope.

  8. #28
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    I don't like the pledge of allegiance and so no point in kids having to say it every day. Actually, I even find it offensive to pledge allegiance to a flag, which is an inanimate object. At the same time, there are people who are living outside or in homeless shelters because they have no homes.
    Why would we love our flags more than our people?
    The main reason that many kids like saying the Pledge of Allegiance is because it is a slight delay in the day's classroom activities. Otherwise, the first things out of the teacher's mouth might be:
    Hand in your homework.
    Here is your test.
    Time for a pop quiz.
    There are better delaying tactics than that.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  9. #29

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    The "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the Eisenhower administration in the 1950s. There's an old Porky Pig cartoon from the 1930s or 1940s in which he recites the pledge and doesn't say "Under God." It's jarring for those of us who have heard it with that phrase for so many years, but it was also extremely refreshing like a polar bear lick.
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  10. #30
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Forcing school kids to recite the pledge of allegiance sounds like a great way of raising a new generation of anarchists, rebels and noncomformists, so I'm all for it.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

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