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Thread: SOPA

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you're saying that because your personal experience has been convenient, that everyone else must have a comparably convenient experience?
    I don't know. You tell me, is that what I said?

    [I left it up to you to decide.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    What's that?
    Thank you, I fixed the post.

    Oh yeah...it's the sound of losing
    I didn't realize we were debating. I thought I was just towing you out of a ditch. That will be $50. Cash only.

  2. #122
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Nerd guy,
    Outside of the USA ebooks etc. are subjected to Different copyright laws. Not everything that good USA has access to, is available to other regions. It's damn frustrating to me, to hear international friends talk about things I have no access to, especially with regard to books. Amazon for instance, can still send me the hard copy, but they can't deliver certain books electronically. I know there are cheats and things I can use to circumvent this, but why should I be forced into illegal activities because the law has not accounted for electronic medium.
    It's the entertainment industry failure to adapt and realize, as well as the law makers, that the Internet cannot truley be divided into regions or countries (they try though), and that this needs to
    Be dealt with on an international level, and quite possibly as a desperate entity.
    Law makers and the entertainment industry haven't truly comprehended the net is global, and
    Becoming increasingly so.
    I have to crack up at people's reactions to the Wikipedia blackout though. I mean they even told you hold to circumvent it and people still whined.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Nerd guy,
    That would be "nerd girl"; I parked the tow truck. Thanks!

    Outside of the USA ebooks etc. are subjected to Different copyright laws. Not everything that good USA has access to, is available to other regions. It's damn frustrating to me, to hear international friends talk about things I have no access to, especially with regard to books. Amazon for instance, can still send me the hard copy, but they can't deliver certain books electronically.
    I share in your frustrations. I use Kindle.

    I know there are cheats and things I can use to circumvent this, but why should I be forced into illegal activities because the law has not accounted for electronic medium.
    It's the entertainment industry failure to adapt and realize, as well as the law makers, that the Internet cannot truley be divided into regions or countries
    (they try though), and that this needs to Be dealt with on an international level, and quite possibly as a desperate entity.
    Law makers and the entertainment industry haven't truly comprehended the net is global, and Becoming increasingly so.
    I have to crack up at people's reactions to the Wikipedia blackout though. I mean they even told you hold to circumvent it and people still whined.
    I haven't stayed on top of this subject, so I can't pretend to know why things are the way they are or what is the ideal solution. I think you've made some excellent points.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    That depends on the content, and the reason why your CD/DVD broke in the first place. Most don't break just because they do.
    Okay, so when is a cd or dvd ever worth that much? My point is when you can download the game in the first place, ie Steam, you don't have to pirate it so that you don't have to buy it again.

  5. #125
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdk View Post
    Okay, so when is a cd or dvd ever worth that much? My point is when you can download the game in the first place, ie Steam, you don't have to pirate it so that you don't have to buy it again.
    Since when is an Apple worth it compared to all the computers and laptops out there? Since when is an Iphone worth it's price compared to other phones like the Droid? Since when is seeing a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge worth not going there to see it for yourself? Since when is it worth it to go to the movie theaters to watch a movie as opposed to watching it at home? Since when is it ever worth it to go to Comic-Con or E3 instead of watching a video about it? Since when is buying good food worth it compared to McDs? Since when are the tickets worth it to see your favorite sports team "live?"

    Not all people want digital copies. People are still willing to buy a hard copy. People are still willing to buy hard covered books while many are also willing to buy digital copy of books. You know what is worth it? The box, the handheld picture that came with it, sometimes, a small wallpaper that came with buying that $30-$60 dollar game sometimes a little toy of some kind that is part of the box.

    Besides that, I sometimes build figures as a hobby now and then, I still keep the boxes. Why? Because I consider it as part of the action figures and because the box is an art all to itself, it is a keepsake. Hell, seeing a Groudon or Ho-Oh in my gameboy days made all the difference, and I still have the boxes for the Ruby, Gold, and Yellow. Thinking of the time it took to create something like Skyrim makes all the difference, sometimes the amount of effort makes something worth it. [yada yada yada]

    --------------------------------------------

    Don't get me wrong, I sort of like how steam is doing it, I just don't want all my games tied to them.

    In any case, I've had cds and dvds since I was in middle school (cd/dvd still wasn't big yet until I got to middle school) and many of them are still in mint condition. Hell, I still have some VHS since I was in elementary school that still work. I also have digital copies of games because of the workaround that steam does it (why buy a hardcover when all it is going to do is redirect you to steam to download it?)

  6. #126
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    We aren't having this problem because of any one administration. We have lived in an authoritarian society for a long time now.
    I never said it was any one administration. We are in a gray area. In some respects we are still a very libertarian society, but the general trend in the past 30 years is towards more centralized government, fewer rights and increased dependence on washington. I would say that the best president we've had in my lifetime is Clinton, because at least he worked with Republicans to balance the budget. But, unfortunately, he was also obsessed with increasing the size and scope of federal government.
    The difference now, in the past four years to be specific, is that our national debt is now over 100% of the GDP and we are extending the power of government from social welfare to corporate bailouts(buying worthless shit with money we are borrowing). The bailouts and failed economic recovery programs should not be blamed on one individual, it was a group effort. Congress pushed them through, the presidents failed to veto.

    The debt was doubled under Bush's two terms(from 5 trillion to over 10 trillion) and Obama has increased that number to over 15 trillion. Eight years of Clinton and it only rose 1 trillion, which is an awesome number compared to the last two presidents, but it's still a really really high number. The problem didn't start with Obama or Bush, but it has grown exponentially in the past decade.

    So, ya, the point is, we're at the edge of a cliff right now trying to decide whether to turn back or jump over. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Europe would be interested in bailing us out, they don't even want to bailout Greece again, so we're kinda fucked if we default. In Greece, apparently there's a problem where people are leaving their kids in the street for other people to take care of b/c the parents have no resources to provide for them. If we're to continue involving ourselves in the affairs of other nations, spending money overseas on shit we don't need with money we don't have and getting nothing in return, and we're increasing the cost and expanding the responsibilities of the federal government, we will go bankrupt.

    It'll probably take the economy collapsing the dollar becoming worthless and people starving in the streets to change how we live. We simply cannot afford to keep borrowing money from China to pay for stupid shit, like Iraq and Afghanistan. Especially since China is going to be one of the first countries to exploit Afghanistan's natural resources, let them pay for "nation-building" directly. There's already debate going on about which currency should replace the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. There's already agreements being made(sometime in late december) between China and Japan allowing trading companies to go from yuan-to-yen and yen-to-yuan without converting to dollars first. So, as American influence declines and our economy turns to shit, an uncensored internet will not fucking matter. Oh wow, that's longer that I expected, and so fractured. Either way, Authoritarian govts = bad for individuals, bad for the economy, bad for internet.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    Because that's what I've been doing. I brought up Valves history for you in a previous post to illustrate just that. This article was hosted on a site called "INDUSTRY GAMERS" I wonder in what context Gabe Newell is talking of. Hmm probably TV shows right, RITE!?
    I appreciate your help and I'm sure you mean well. I was looking for something more substantial and global in scope than the article @Lateralus posted to help us understand his perspective: "A lot of piracy takes place because it's simply not convenient to go the legal route. It's not all about cost."

    Unfortunately, the article left me with more unanswered questions because it appeared to leave out key parts of Gabe's quote/speech that would provide more insight into his claim. I know you were trying to help me get past that by providing some history; thank you. (As @CrystalViolet noted recently, piracy is a global issue [and not limited to games]. There may be a different market for books and DVD's than there is for games. I don't know. That's why I'd like to see a wider variety of expert opinions on the matter.) I'll have to do a little research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Since when is an Apple worth it compared to all the computers and laptops out there? Since when is an Iphone worth it's price compared to other phones like the Droid? Since when is seeing a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge worth not going there to see it for yourself?
    Amen!

    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    We simply cannot afford to keep borrowing money from China to pay for stupid shit,

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I appreciate your help and I'm sure you mean well. I was looking for something more substantial and global in scope than the article @Lateralus posted to help us understand his perspective: "A lot of piracy takes place because it's simply not convenient to go the legal route. It's not all about cost."


    That's understandable. It's more indepth than some make it seem and that article alone is obviously the tip of the iceberg. There have been many discussions about piracy (especially for gamers) and many have chimed in, Gabe being one of them. Of course everything he said is his opinion, however, the results show. If it weren't for these results no one would quote him on the issue of piracy. This is the same reason no one quotes EA's opinion about piracy and how to fight it because their policies don't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    (As @CrystalViolet noted recently, piracy is a global issue [and not limited to games]. There may be a different market for books and DVD's than there is for games. I don't know. That's why I'd like to see a wider variety of expert opinions on the matter.) I'll have to do a little research.
    Indeed. Piracy has its effect on each industry differently. Even for games the issue is different for consoles vs pc. The issue of convenience may not be there for other entertainment industries or may not have as large of an influence as on the gaming industry. However because it plays such a large role in one of the main industries (gaming) I'd wager it's fair to say it has an influence on the general topic of pirating.

    I was just attempting to show you that Gabe (valve) is one of the pioneers really for his stances and policies against piracy. Their system works. Obviously he doesn't have experience in the other entertainment industries so he cannot lend any advice towards those companies involved.

    Anyways good to hear that everything went well. Sometimes I can seem more aggressive or offense than I mean to in arguments and I'm glad you hold no ill will.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I don't know. You tell me, is that what I said?
    You certainly implied it. It may be a legitimate implication, but I need more than just your word on that.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #130
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Putting aside the question of whether or not pirates have legitimate incentives, I'd point to the case of Spore again. People did aim to pirate it, the attempt to stop the pirates totally failed, and it did make things worse for legitimate customers. It's a weird system to try stopping an inevitability by hurting those who are unrelated to it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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