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Thread: SOPA

  1. #91
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Is iTunes really less convenient than a torrent? Even more importantly, is convenience an appropriate defense? Doing your taxes is a pain in the ass. Is it okay to not pay them because it could be made easier?
    http://www.industrygamers.com/news/v...y-a-non-issue/

    Now, I think Gabe Newell's opinion might be a bit extreme. Cost and convenience are probably both factors.

    I like Steam's approach to this issue. I think music and movie publishers could learn something from them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #92
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Is iTunes really less convenient than a torrent? Even more importantly, is convenience an appropriate defense? Doing your taxes is a pain in the ass. Is it okay to not pay them because it could be made easier?
    Well, for one thing, companies that don't want to pay I-Tunes to use their service can do the service for practically free. I mean, the hassle to be downloading, say, f2p mmo's through something like I-Tunes? Forget it.

    Two, the cost of multitudes of people downloading the f2p mmo is shot down in that it is much cheaper to create a p2p sharing of these files than to have a total dedication for them on their own server.

    Three, the cost for full dedication (hosting it themselves) cost a whole much more than having one as a torrent or posted on a file-sharing site.

    It is like paying a butcher a service fee for cutting a meat versus another butcher who does the job for free (though you have to pay for the meat which is essentially the file itself.)

    Torrent is a butcher with free service.

    I-Tunes and File-Sharing Sites are like a butcher with a service fee.

    Full-dedication is like having to butcher the meat yourself.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    TA lot of piracy takes place because it's simply not convenient to go the legal route. It's not all about cost.
    Disagree with you there. I buy MP3's, ebooks, on Amazon all the time. My payment method is already on file, I click and dowload to my phone (via an app), PC, or tablet. It's very convenient. It all happens in a matter of seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Nope, but I do live in a state where the court ruled that the prisons here are over-crowded. It was either fix the problem now or release them to fix the over-crowding problem.
    I agree, pirates do not belong in prison. We need smarter technology to stop it and incentives for implementation. Maybe intercept the download/upload through the ISP or proxy. The 'smarter technology' I'm talking about would identify and rectify those.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Disagree with you there. I buy MP3's, ebooks, on Amazon all the time. My payment method is already on file, I click and dowload to my phone, PC, or tablet. It's very convenient. It all happens in a matter of seconds.
    Well, I'm not the only person with this opinion. Some people who are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than either of us would disagree with you. See my most recent post.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #95
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Megaupload was taken down because it's violating existing law, which is just fine with me. Governments already have the tools they need to police piracy.
    The music and film industry have lawyers to protect copyright law. Why the fuck should I pay for that? Why pay to protect their copyright laws and not others? Oh wait, that's right. It's because Obama filled the DOJ with RIAA attorneys. Corruption?

  6. #96
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    ITT:

    people who think pirates only pirate the media that they consume

  7. #97
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    The music and film industry have lawyers to protect copyright law. Why the fuck should I pay for that? Why pay to protect their copyright laws and not others? Oh wait, that's right. It's because Obama filled the DOJ with RIAA attorneys. Corruption?
    First, I'll say I agree with you that the revolving door between industry and the government agencies that are supposed to be regulating those industries is a good example of corruption. That said, are you saying we shouldn't prosecute theft? If that's your argument, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #98
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I'm saying I shouldn't be paying for it. There are legal avenues like injunctions and lawsuits to prosecute these offenses. They're not harming me, they're harming private, rich, corporate entities. Let them pay for it themselves.
    Last edited by ThatsWhatHeSaid; 01-19-2012 at 09:30 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #99
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm glad to see Valve was mentioned here. They deserve it. I was just thinking about their role in this issue a few days ago.

    For that, let me present the exact opposite of valve and its consequences.

    Spore, produced by Maxis, subsidiary of EA.

    Spore uses a modified version of the controversial digital rights management (DRM) software SecuROM as copy protection, which requires authentication upon installation and when online access is used. This system was announced after the originally planned system met opposition from the public, as it would have required authentication every ten days. Additionally, EA released the game under a policy by which the product key of an individual copy of the game would only be authenticated on up to three computers. In response to customer complaints, this limit was raised to five computers. After the activation limit has been depleted, EA Customer Service will consider further activations on a case-by-case basis. A survey conducted by EA revealed that only 14% have activated on more than 1 PC and less than 1% of users have tried to activate Spore on more than 3 PCs.

    By September 14, 2008 (ten days after the game's initial Australian release), 2,016 of 2,216 ratings on Amazon.com gave the game one out of five stars, most citing EA's implementation of DRM for the low ratings. Electronic Arts cited SecuROM as a "standard for the industry", and Apple's iPod song DRM policy as justification for the control method. Former Maxis developer Chris Harris labeled the DRM a "screw up" and a "totally avoidable disaster".

    The SecuROM software was not mentioned on the box, in the manual, or in the software license agreement. An EA spokesperson stated that "we don't disclose specifically which copy protection or digital rights management system we use [...] because EA typically uses one license agreement for all of its downloadable games, and different EA downloadable games may use different copy protection and digital rights management.” A pirated version without the DRM was released two days before the initial Australian release and was immediately distributed over BitTorrent file sharing protocol, making Spore the most pirated game of 2008.

    On September 22, 2008, a class action law suit was filed against EA, regarding the DRM in Spore, complaining about EA not disclosing the existence of SecuROM, and addressing how SecuROM runs with the nature of a rootkit, including how it remains on the hard drive even after Spore is uninstalled. On October 14, 2008, a similar class action lawsuit was filed against EA for the inclusion of DRM software in the free demo version of the Creature Creator.

    EA began selling Spore without SecuROM on December 22, 2008 through Steam. Furthermore, EA Games president Frank Gibeau announced that maximum install limit would be increased from 3 to 5 and that it would be possible to de-authorize and move installations to new machines, citing the need to adapt their policy to accommodate their legitimate customers. EA has stated, "By running the de-authorization tool, a machine 'slot' will be freed up on the online Product Authorization server and can then be re-used by another machine. You can de-authorize at any time, even without uninstalling Spore, and free up that machine authorization. If you re-launch Spore on the same machine, the game will attempt to re-authorize. If you have not reached the machine limitation, the game will authorize and the machine will be re-authorized using up one of the five available machines." However, the de-authorization tool to do this is not available on the Mac platform.
    And that whole excerpt (copied from Wikipedia) didn't even mention another big issue. Go to any official forum that might relate to Spore and you will find many customers had problems being validated even though they legitimately bought the game. That is, a snafu in the system somehow resulted in them being treated as thought they were illegitimate, in spite of paying. For this, people generally received counter-productive run-arounds or offers to attempt establishing their purchase again (that is, including paying a second time).

    And as you can read, the whole system was quite easily bypassed anyhow. By failing to actually create an obstacle pirates couldn't navigate, and seriously inconveniencing legitimate customers, they made it the most pirated game of its year. They directly incentivized piracy but basically troubling only honest customers.

    And that is why you have shit like SOPA and PIPA. Big companies want it all, but their incompetence leads them to get even less than they would if they hadn't tried at all. They could be like Valve, but from industry to the next big companies typically have an naive fear of new means of business and no clue of how powerful and pervasive pirates are. They've gotten fed up with that, and instead of learning their lesson they've decided to lobby the government to be Big Brother instead.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, I'm not the only person with this opinion. Some people who are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than either of us would disagree with you. See my most recent post.
    I see the article you posted with Gabe Newell's opinion (Valve co-founder), "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem." Gabe's opinion doesn't add up unless he's saying that people only pirate region-locked releases or the likes that are only sold in brick and morter stores (and if he's ONLY talking about his company). My response to that is what shallow thinking. He's clearly trying to sell a product; I guess that's why he's pitching 'Steam'.

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