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  1. #81
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    Ron Paul is just as bad as everyone else. Just in new and unique ways. We haven't seen his type before so we assume it must be better. But he is an isolationist, racist, lassaiz faire capitalist, discompassionate, libertarian MADMAN.
    Or more simply put, he's the same old shit on a new platter.

    People like the idea of something new, they point to his wanting to legalize marijuana and pull out of all wars as proof that he wants to represent the people's will. But they fail to remember his desire to tear down nearly every government organization that would regulate and constrain the vicious vile and violent efforts of corporations and even our own elected officials to destroy our rights and shackle us all to the whims of the wealthy.

    Ron Paul would dismantle our democracy.
    How, specifically, would Ron Paul dismantle our democracy?

    Is that not a function of our Congress?

    What, as executive and commander in chief, would Ron Paul be poised to dismantle. I understand he could choose not to prosecute individuals for (rightfully) violating unjust laws and remove unlawful combatants (mostly US troops, but NATO troops will follow after they withdraw) from sovereign nations

  2. #82
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    How, specifically, would Ron Paul dismantle our democracy?

    Is that not a function of our Congress?

    What, as executive and commander in chief, would Ron Paul be poised to dismantle. I understand he could choose not to prosecute individuals for (rightfully) violating unjust laws and remove unlawful combatants (mostly US troops, but NATO troops will follow after they withdraw) from sovereign nations
    With the new NDAA bill that has that nice clause allowing the president to give permission to the military to indefinitely detain any individual Ron Paul could systematically arrest all the right people in all the right places to remove and opposition or protest. And as the highest representative of the republican party he could easily sway any republican to vote how he wanted them to in both the House and Senate. He would have power to place judges on the supreme court who could decree anything unconstitutional and veto bills that may be beneficial to the people but might not represent his interests.
    These are powers any president would have, but I am more afraid of Ron Paul abusing them than I would be of Obama or even Romney.

    As for the function of Congress being to dismantle our democracy I have no idea what you mean by that. They can do so by bills and laws but that is not an intrinsic part of their function, it's simply a symptom of their mass funding by corporate powers that desire deregulation everywhere but in our personal lives.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    With the new NDAA bill that has that nice clause allowing the president to give permission to the military to indefinitely detain any individual Ron Paul could systematically arrest all the right people in all the right places to remove and opposition or protest. And as the highest representative of the republican party he could easily sway any republican to vote how he wanted them to in both the House and Senate. He would have power to place judges on the supreme court who could decree anything unconstitutional and veto bills that may be beneficial to the people but might not represent his interests.
    These are powers any president would have, but I am more afraid of Ron Paul abusing them than I would be of Obama or even Romney.

    As for the function of Congress being to dismantle our democracy I have no idea what you mean by that. They can do so by bills and laws but that is not an intrinsic part of their function, it's simply a symptom of their mass funding by corporate powers that desire deregulation everywhere but in our personal lives.
    You do realize that Ron Paul is one of a handful of people that opposes NDAA, right?

    You do realize that President Obama is signing this legislation into law, right?

    I am far, far more afraid of the person who signed (not vetoed, as a president may) this into law than I am of the person who vehemently opposed it (and The Patriot Act, and SOPA, both, again reaffirmed by Obama) during his tenure as a lawmaker.

    What about you?

  4. #84
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    You do realize that Ron Paul is one of a handful of people that opposes NDAA, right?

    You do realize that President Obama is signing this legislation into law, right?

    I am far, far more afraid of the person who signed (not vetoed, as a president may) this into law than I am of the person who vehemently opposed it (and The Patriot Act, and SOPA, both, again reaffirmed by Obama) during his tenure as a lawmaker.

    What about you?
    I am not an Obama supporter.
    But even if he opposed it being put into legislation I would not put it past him to use it anyways.
    And you've just ignored a great deal of my argument. What about his desire to dismantle the EPA? The group that keeps the lead out of our water and the arsenic out of the parks where our children play.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    I am not an Obama supporter.
    But even if he opposed it being put into legislation I would not put it past him to use it anyways.
    And you've just ignored a great deal of my argument. What about his desire to dismantle the EPA? The group that keeps the lead out of our water and the arsenic out of the parks where our children play.
    He can desire whatever he wants. I desire blondes

    The worst he could possibly do is submit a suggestion that it be dismantled, at which point a Congress with an 8% approval rating will either act on the suggestion and take a vote in the House and the Senate, or do nothing

    But guess what, YOU can do the exact same thing. You have the same capacity to write Congress and suggest that the EPA be dismantled or empowered.

    The executive branch does not create law. Ron Paul is running for president. The president is an executive, not a legislator.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...ecutive_Branch

  6. #86
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    He can desire whatever he wants. I desire blondes

    The worst he could possibly do is submit a suggestion that it be dismantled, at which point a Congress with an 8% approval rating will either act on the suggestion and take a vote in the House and the Senate, or do nothing

    But guess what, YOU can do the exact same thing. You have the same capacity to write Congress and suggest that the EPA be dismantled or empowered.

    The executive branch does not create law. Ron Paul is running for president. The president is an executive, not a legislator.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...ecutive_Branch
    But when I get signatures and propose a bill to the senate they can ignore me. When the president proposes a bill, ignoring him has consequences.
    And you're ignoring one of my points, that Ron Paul would have influence over republicans. It's how Bush got the PATRIOT act through.
    As much as our checks and balances are good in theory, we've had more than two hundred years for career politicians to find ways around them.

    And whether or not he is powerful or powerless, I do not think his intentions are pure. Nor are they beneficial for or representative of the american people.
    Electing Ron Paul will not magically remove the corruption and taint of corporate influence from our government. The Ron Paul revolution will be at best a minor reform and at worst a crushing blow to civil and human rights.
    A revolution that puts people before profits and workers before corporations is already afoot and already representing your interests, join your local Occupation and fight for a worthy cause. Don't elect another unrepresentative fool to fight for his financiers, fight against the system that allows those agents of fascism to control a government with no consequences or public oversight.
    Fight the source of the problem, the root of political evil, follow the money and join the revolution, I know you have it in you.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    But when I get signatures and propose a bill to the senate they can ignore me. When the president proposes a bill, ignoring him has consequences.
    And you're ignoring one of my points, that Ron Paul would have influence over republicans. It's how Bush got the PATRIOT act through.
    As much as our checks and balances are good in theory, we've had more than two hundred years for career politicians to find ways around them.

    And whether or not he is powerful or powerless, I do not think his intentions are pure. Nor are they beneficial for or representative of the american people.
    Electing Ron Paul will not magically remove the corruption and taint of corporate influence from our government. The Ron Paul revolution will be at best a minor reform and at worst a crushing blow to civil and human rights.
    A revolution that puts people before profits and workers before corporations is already afoot and already representing your interests, join your local Occupation and fight for a worthy cause. Don't elect another unrepresentative fool to fight for his financiers, fight against the system that allows those agents of fascism to control a government with no consequences or public oversight.
    Fight the source of the problem, the root of political evil, follow the money and join the revolution, I know you have it in you.
    You seem very passionate about politics

    Who would you vote for?

  8. #88
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    The lesser of two evils.
    So probably Obama.
    And yes, I'm very passionate about politics, it affects us all, and alot of people suffer because of the greedy ambitions of a few rich men, backed up by the deceptions of a bought and paid for media.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    You've obviously never heard of Dale Carnegie. My point is that if you actually want to change people's minds, there are better ways of acheiving that...
    nono people will beleive waht they want to beleive.

    Most people beleive in god, most other people beleive in disbeleif. No matter what it's a beleif system not based on facts. This whole concept of changing minds seems pretty complicated in that to really convince someone you more than likly have to "con"vince them
    1+1=3 OMFG

  10. #90
    Member Zaid's Avatar
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    Ron Paul has some wacked out ideas, but I think we need a little bit of his crazy in office.

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