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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    The Gospel of Christ is a socialist manifesto

    Other huge sections of the bible offer a disgusting glimpse into the horrors of monarchy, genocide, slavery, accumulation & concentration of wealth, imperialism, and tyranny

    Not to mention the father of all tyrants, Yahweh
    Nice. Ever stop to think and forget to start again? Think about it.

    [I saw what you did. That's speaking as someone that understands the Bible as it was intended. Your message is emotion-based and not fact-based (and any inkling of fact is skewed). Apparent by the blunder on the second line where Ti eludes you, as you say "huge sections" followed by just a "glimpse" in contradiction. So which is it?

    BTW, Fixed your post and eliminated the emo feelings. YW. :p]

  2. #112
    Insert witty line here... Ponyboy's Avatar
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    UGH!! Must you end every argument by accusing the other person of being "emo"?? That's about as new as the bible!
    I'm never wrong, I'm just sometimes less right

  3. #113
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponyboy View Post
    UGH!! Must you end every argument by accusing the other person of being "emo"??
    Yes, but only every other argument.

    -->nerdy facts<--

    [Sorry I forgot to wish you Merry Christmas, Peebs. :\ Merry Christmas and happy new year and birthday. <3]

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Nice. Ever stop to think and forget to start again? Think about it.

    [I saw what you did. That's speaking as someone that understands the Bible as it was intended. Your message is emotion-based and not fact-based (and any inkling of fact is skewed). Apparent by the blunder on the second line where Ti eludes you, as you say "huge sections" followed by just a "glimpse" in contradiction. So which is it?

    BTW, Fixed your post and eliminated the emo feelings. YW. :p]
    While the post is no mistaken emotionally charged, there is a mistake too in suggesting that there was a "Gospel of Christ" but socialism was originally conceived as "Christianity as a secular religion" or something like that by the first socialists.

    They thought that they would remove all supernatural content from the story of Christ, relocate heaven from the afterlife and situate it in historical time as the future end of all progressive social and economic change.

    That's not completely secular because there's evidence to suggest that both judaism and Christianity, even when they believed that heaven was in existence on another astral plane, that eventually it would exist in historical time and, in the Christian conception at least, the two seperate states would be united as one.

    I am interested in the continuities and consistencies between socialism and christianity because I think there are many but many, although there are many socialists and Christians who hate to imagine there is any association between the two at all.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The abolition of education should be a clue that he's in favour of an even less equitable and even more privileged situation that exists at present, that for me would be enough to prevent me voting for anyone, the military build up at home or abroad I dont know what you Americans do about that because I dont see that changing.

    The idea that its a choice between ultra capitalism and militarism is really no choice at all, its like saying which level of hell would you like to live in? Or how would you like to be slowly tortured into submission or killed?
    Huh? I don't recall Ron Paul ever saying he wanted to "abolish education". He doesn't like the Department of Education. A majority of funding for education comes from state and local taxes, so losing the Department of Education, a federal agency, would not be the same as abolishing education.

    The idea of a Department of Education sounds nice. It makes us feel good, knowing that someone "up above" (the government in this case) is looking out for everyone. But in practice the Department has done little but inflate the costs of education along with setting arbitrary goals that have little to do with actual learning (teaching to the test).

    I don't agree with Ron Paul on every issue, but I would vote for him over any other candidate currently running because he wouldn't be able to implement his most radical ideas. He might be able to get some of his more reasonable ideas implemented, though (like auditing the Fed).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #116
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Nice. Ever stop to think and forget to start again? Think about it.

    [I saw what you did. That's speaking as someone that understands the Bible as it was intended. Your message is emotion-based and not fact-based (and any inkling of fact is skewed). Apparent by the blunder on the second line where Ti eludes you, as you say "huge sections" followed by just a "glimpse" in contradiction. So which is it?

    BTW, Fixed your post and eliminated the emo feelings. YW. :p]
    I think you misunderstand what I am saying. A glimpse does not offer a whole view of the history of west Asia. The bible, however, does contain numerous writings (The Old Testament is of course much larger than the Gospel of Christ) detailing atrocities committed in these regions. I do not see how I made any contradiction, however I would like to hear your reasoning. I do not believe that writing contradictions is productive or informative, so if I am making errors, I appreciate it when others make me aware of them.

    And whether you choose to cross out my most important point or not, it still stands

    The Gospel of Christ is a socialist manifesto. It provides a strong framework and the moral imperative for socialism. Healing the sick, disregarding the accumulation of material excess, and educating our fellow humans are all goals practiced and preached by one of the greatest teachers humanity has ever been blessed with. We would be foolish not to pursue this agenda.

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Huh? I don't recall Ron Paul ever saying he wanted to "abolish education". He doesn't like the Department of Education. A majority of funding for education comes from state and local taxes, so losing the Department of Education, a federal agency, would not be the same as abolishing education.

    The idea of a Department of Education sounds nice. It makes us feel good, knowing that someone "up above" (the government in this case) is looking out for everyone. But in practice the Department has done little but inflate the costs of education along with setting arbitrary goals that have little to do with actual learning (teaching to the test).

    I don't agree with Ron Paul on every issue, but I would vote for him over any other candidate currently running because he wouldn't be able to implement his most radical ideas. He might be able to get some of his more reasonable ideas implemented, though (like auditing the Fed).
    How perfectly pragmatic, however, its the same view that's been taken in the past by mistaken democrats or pragmatists dealing with militant tendencies, the obvious example would be the industrialists who sponsored Hitler but there's others which fall short of that extreme example.

    For instance Thatcher, a lot of bitter old monied class warriors in the Monday Club wouldnt have thought the UK would still be trying to recover from the eradication of anything other than banking as commercial and industrial hubs when they elected her to "beat the unions".

    So far as the "abolish education" goes I was responding to another post, although it is something which is popular with a lot of his supporters, for various reasons, and that's unmistakeable.

    The attitude of Paul to what is effectively a ministry or bureau which it would be difficult to see a state level education service function without, let alone a federal one, is pretty telling. There perhaps has been some cost inflation but that's obviously going to happen when you attempt a single curriculum and assess how it being realised in practice etc.

  8. #118
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Ron Paul on the one hand is more consistent and hopefully more honest than most politicians, and Libertarianism tends to be more logically consistent than the other parties, but it is based on faulty assumptions that only consider the vantage point of one side of the issues and so it is capable of creating a great deal of suffering and increasing the divide between extreme wealth and poverty. The assumption that we have nearly infinite free will that disregards context is incorrect. There is nothing to demonstrate, measure, or prove that individual will is the great equalizer. It is an assumption that favors those who are already in a position of privilege. It is the philosophy of maintaining and increasing the divide between privilege and want within a society. Sincere, well-intentioned people buy into it because it can sound great if you are willing to shut your eyes to most of reality.

    edit: This does not refer only to Libertarianism, but the right-wing philosophies that focus on protecting the interests of the most extremely wealthy - they often focus on this idea that determination and hard work can provide anyone with wealth (at least "in America"). This assumes we live in a meritocracy in which the wealthy deserve any extreme amounts of wealth because it was their individual will that got them their position. Many poor and middle class people are fighting passionately for the rights of the extremely wealthy in the U.S., the very ones that are causing exploitation and harming our economic and environmental systems. The very fact that people are fighting passionately for the rights of their exploiters is a strong indication that free will has its limits. People demonstrate that they are subject to propaganda, to fear, even to the extreme of Stockholm syndrome. We have definitive proof that our wills are subject to context. This understanding undermines the entire structure of Libertarianism.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  9. #119
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    How perfectly pragmatic, however, its the same view that's been taken in the past by mistaken democrats or pragmatists dealing with militant tendencies, the obvious example would be the industrialists who sponsored Hitler but there's others which fall short of that extreme example.
    Sweet, we've now got a Hitler reference.

    So far as the "abolish education" goes I was responding to another post, although it is something which is popular with a lot of his supporters, for various reasons, and that's unmistakeable.
    A lot of his supporters want to "abolish education"? I doubt that's actually true. The general philosophy of people like Ron Paul and his supporters is that things like education are better off being handled at the state level because the federal government is too far removed from the people. Federal programs almost never take into account any of the nuances of any city or region. Everything ends up being one-size-fits-all, and that's not very efficient.

    The attitude of Paul to what is effectively a ministry or bureau which it would be difficult to see a state level education service function without, let alone a federal one, is pretty telling. There perhaps has been some cost inflation but that's obviously going to happen when you attempt a single curriculum and assess how it being realised in practice etc.
    Did you leave something out of this statement? It doesn't make sense to me.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sweet, we've now got a Hitler reference.
    Which is part of the reason that I dont like making references to Hitler, too easily dismissed as vitriolic these days without any reference what so ever to the content.

    A lot of his supporters want to "abolish education"? I doubt that's actually true. The general philosophy of people like Ron Paul and his supporters is that things like education are better off being handled at the state level because the federal government is too far removed from the people. Federal programs almost never take into account any of the nuances of any city or region. Everything ends up being one-size-fits-all, and that's not very efficient.
    I've yet to meet a Ron Paul supporter who does not want some sort of extremist libertarian paradigm shift in which no state funding exists for anything what so ever, including education.

    It could be off topic in a way but I would question what is meant by "one-size-fits all", is it a single standard? How would it be efficient to have diverse and different standards? Surely that would be wasteful to sponsor expectation free a diverse range of varying education provision and providers?

    See it appears rhetorically fine to deploy the reasoning of the marketplace, or rather and more often the reasoning of the consumer, but upon closer examination or consideration it doesnt hold up.

    I dont think that voters reason like that, they arent encouraged to, they spend the majority of their time performing as consumers, passive recipients of advertising, marketing, infotainment. So Paul's on a winner. So is libertarianism per se. Despite the fact that it spells the end of many peoples prosperity in favour of the preservation of the privileges of a few.

    Did you leave something out of this statement? It doesn't make sense to me.
    No I didnt, I dont know why it doesnt make sense to you but I could hazard a guess given your perspective on education.

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