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  1. #1
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Exclamation World Economic Crisis Explained in video

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0&feature=player_embedded"]11 minute BIG picture view [/YOUTUBE]
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I wish I could get that final frame as a poster for my room.

    This fits perfectly with my own analysis of the situation, although I'll be honest that I wouldnt have considered myself to be coming from as explicitly a marxist position personally, that said I know that most of the world economists who are part of the elite which is making serious money right now will admit that Marx is more of a reliable source for canny investors or power brokers right now than any other economic canon.

    That said it doesnt matter, I see a terrible stupid mindset in most of the circles which are the supposed intelligentsia or voting public or politically interested public, there's not any will to critical thinking, certainly not about their own value bases or the consequences of their own ideas. Its all become like some stupid spectator sport. Which is another, greater problem all by itself.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    wow lol the part where it said something like" germany press is saying it's defects in the greek character"

    That's all that i need. Forget the whole video. We have media manipulation just like back in WW2 in germany. All i need is the source of his information. Media manipulation is the most obviouse of all propaganda, and it wouldnt be hard to exploit it, can anyone help with his credentials.? i wanna see where he got this information

    it's around 2:30
    1+1=3 OMFG

  4. #4
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    screw it ill find ti myself

    http://news.ph.msn.com/business/arti...mentid=5539504




    What is interesting, is that the video said"anyone with any sensibility would join an anti capitalism organization. That's right peeps. Occupy the fucking world protest
    1+1=3 OMFG

  5. #5
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Good video

  6. #6
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wish I could get that final frame as a poster for my room.
    what's stopping you, just have it printed out.

    That said it doesnt matter, I see a terrible stupid mindset in most of the circles which are the supposed intelligentsia or voting public or politically interested public, there's not any will to critical thinking, certainly not about their own value bases or the consequences of their own ideas. Its all become like some stupid spectator sport. Which is another, greater problem all by itself.
    That is the only problem. It would require a self-less society, different from the one we have.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    what's stopping you, just have it printed out.
    I couldnt do that.


    That is the only problem. It would require a self-less society, different from the one we have.
    No it wouldnt, infact confused talk about altruism and selflessness has set back progress years, in reality selflessness is the rich man's suggestion for the poor man's condition, now if the poor where as selfish and intransigent about their self interest as the rich man they'd scoff at that and go on perpetual strike until a commonwealth replaced the mockery that exists presently.

  8. #8
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I couldnt do that.




    No it wouldnt, infact confused talk about altruism and selflessness has set back progress years, in reality selflessness is the rich man's suggestion for the poor man's condition, now if the poor where as selfish and intransigent about their self interest as the rich man they'd scoff at that and go on perpetual strike until a commonwealth replaced the mockery that exists presently.
    Saying a selfless society wouldn't be required and then pointing how without one, as is, the wealthy are selfish and intransigent about their self interest, seems to be a contradiction.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Saying a selfless society wouldn't be required and then pointing how without one, as is, the wealthy are selfish and intransigent about their self interest, seems to be a contradiction.
    OK, I'll try and keep this very simple.

    The clip doesnt suggest any solutions, let alone any based upon altruism or selflessness. The clip suggests that greed is a natural by product of the present economic system, what is refered to as systemic risk or failing or, in the marxist sense, the internal contradictions of capitalism, that greed is particularly apparent, the clip states, in the financial sector.

    What the clip also suggests is that labour power, ie powerful unions, is not a problem, it has not been mentioned during the present crisis. So "greed" among the working classes certainly is not a problem at present.

    My point is that rather than suggesting that altruism is in any way required or a remedy instead the working classes, in fact all classes, should behave in a self-interested manner, it is the "selflessness" of the other classes, the classes other than the financial classes, which has prevented the selfishness of the financial classes being capped.

    The whole selflessness idea is seriously confused, alternatives to capitalism as it is or alternatives to capitalism per se do not need saintly, altruistic, selfless or sharing indivdiuals for their institution or operation anymore than capitalism needed those things when it replaced fuedalism and earlier sorts of historical epochs.

    That is all bogus, logically and properly understood capitalism can not and will not satisfy a society of logically and enlightened self interested individuals, capitalism continues because it can serve the most powerful interest groups directly in their struggle with everyone else, while holding out the dream or promise of a better tommorrow to enough of the rest of the population.

  10. #10
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    OK, I'll try and keep this very simple.

    The clip doesnt suggest any solutions, let alone any based upon altruism or selflessness. The clip suggests that greed is a natural by product of the present economic system, what is refered to as systemic risk or failing or, in the marxist sense, the internal contradictions of capitalism, that greed is particularly apparent, the clip states, in the financial sector.

    What the clip also suggests is that labour power, ie powerful unions, is not a problem, it has not been mentioned during the present crisis. So "greed" among the working classes certainly is not a problem at present.

    My point is that rather than suggesting that altruism is in any way required or a remedy instead the working classes, in fact all classes, should behave in a self-interested manner, it is the "selflessness" of the other classes, the classes other than the financial classes, which has prevented the selfishness of the financial classes being capped.

    The whole selflessness idea is seriously confused, alternatives to capitalism as it is or alternatives to capitalism per se do not need saintly, altruistic, selfless or sharing indivdiuals for their institution or operation anymore than capitalism needed those things when it replaced fuedalism and earlier sorts of historical epochs.

    That is all bogus, logically and properly understood capitalism can not and will not satisfy a society of logically and enlightened self interested individuals, capitalism continues because it can serve the most powerful interest groups directly in their struggle with everyone else, while holding out the dream or promise of a better tommorrow to enough of the rest of the population.
    I don't disagree with the summary above, considering the underlying POV.

    The lack of suggestions in the video, is imho, a requirement to keep it neutral and as safe as possible, avoiding generating polarity among those in a position of opposite interests to any suggestion that could have been made, and thus, allowing for it's message to reach out further, and for a longer period of time.

    I also agree with your view on capitalism's needs, although I'm a bit confused about the inadequacy, based on the statement of "society of logically and enlightened" combining with "self interested individuals", as in my view they would oppose. I'd argue though, that it would serve the later of the two, which are the forming part of the powerful interest groups you refer.

    What the above suggests, in my view, is food for thought, not as a member of any of the interest groups, but as an neutral outsider, not only on identifying the right cure, but rather firsts, what is the actual disease. As long as the collective mentality does not change, history will continue to repeat itself, no matter how many theories the next man brings, as no creation can be better than it's creator.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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