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  1. #31
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    How can you strip people of "rights" its not possible for them to have?
    False

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-se..._New_Hampshire

    Under New Hampshire law, a marriage between two people of the same sex is legally protected, and the married individuals have privileges (medical care decisions, funeral arrangements, state health care plan coverage, state pension benefits, inheritance, transfer of property from one spouse to another, adoption privileges, etc.)

    These rights already exist Lark. They are already law. They are already civil rights passed into law by a civilized society.

    Because this is state law, only a federal law could strip these individuals of their civil rights.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Regardless of your stance on homosexuality, you cannot know any of this without actually reading it. You might as well start writing book reviews after looking at nothing more than the cover.

    I couldn't care less about your stance on homosexuality. It's not an issue that interests me. But what you did there, dismissing something you haven't even read, was retarded. That's the sort of thing Young Earth creationists do.
    I dont care about your stance on young earth creationists, I dont know why you mention it, although I'm totally fine with dismissing anyone who opens a discussion by describing me as an idiot.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    False

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-se..._New_Hampshire

    Under New Hampshire law, a marriage between two people of the same sex is legally protected, and the married individuals have privileges (medical care decisions, funeral arrangements, state health care plan coverage, state pension benefits, inheritance, transfer of property from one spouse to another, adoption privileges, etc.)

    These rights already exist Lark. They are already law. They are already civil rights passed into law by a civilized society.

    Because this is state law, only a federal law could strip these individuals of their civil rights.
    Well the law is an ass in that instance, so, rights then, they're whatever the law says they are? You can invent and confer rights then?

    I wonder what gravity will think if some constituency decides they should have the right to levitate?

  4. #34
    Sniffles
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    Don't worry Lark, you didn't miss anything special - just the same old stuff they always say only with crude cartoons involved.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    so, rights then, they're whatever the law says they are? You can invent and confer rights then?
    Yes

    Rights are typically enforced by laws

    Genocide, for example, is generally illegal

    Citizens of the United States are free to keep and bear arms by law, for example

    Slavery is typically outlawed in modern societies, for example

    Different societies have different rights

    Many European nations, for example, consider health care to be a right, so it is available to citizens. The United States does not consider health care to be a right, so it is not available to everyone.

    There are many more examples of rights being enforced by law. I will happily provide you with more examples.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Yes

    Rights are typically enforced by laws

    Genocide, for example, is generally illegal

    Citizens of America are free to keep and bear arms by law, for example

    Slavery is typically outlawed in modern societies, for example
    I figured that is what you believed.

    I consider that erronious, its the sort of thinking which was rightly condemned by the British as "Nonsense on stilts" when it emerged during the French Revolution.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I figured that is what you believed.

    I consider that erronious, its the sort of thinking which was rightly condemned by the British as "Nonsense on stilts" when it emerged during the French Revolution.
    You should elaborate on this. Why do you consider this to be nonsense?

    Do you believe that rights should not be enforced by law?

  8. #38
    Sniffles
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    So rights only exist via positive law eh? Rather shaky foundation I must say.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So rights only exist via positive law eh? Rather shaky foundation I must say.
    Rights exist because we determine they should exist

    Is it a shaky foundation? Possibly. I am not sure how you would want it to be.

    How would we stabilize this shaky foundation?

  10. #40
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So rights only exist via positive law eh? Rather shaky foundation I must say.
    I mean, rights aren't inherent, are they? We have to create (or use) a subjective framework to justify their existence.

    My framework is essentially -- maximize (the sum of long term happiness of each individual/the total population). Rights should be strategies for maximization. Equal opportunities for gay couples, from this perspective, clearly makes those positively affected more happy than it makes those negatively affected unhappy. They can now visit their loved ones in the hospital, at the cost of you being able to.... what exactly?

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