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  1. #61
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - finances. I'm living with my parents and trying to start up a business so that I can have cyber income, so that I can eventually work and access money from anywhere in the world. the US isn't the worst place in the world, but it's not my cup of tea.
    - your example is a little archaic, I would choose being the majority in a family group because it's safer, not because I am sustained by community spirit, it's wonderful if some people are, but I'm not one of them. were I as financially successful, I would want to be as autonomous as possible (still do even now) and would actually prefer going off to some uncharted, unfamiliar territory (provided of course I was able to arrange modern appliances like electricity, internet access, and various hygiene/comfort accessories)
    I don't find it so archaic at all.. Much of America is still sectioned off. Whole communities of Asians live all in the same area, to the point of having the street signs in Chinese. We have areas where the Hispanic populations are much more concentrated to the point where all the advertisements are in Spanish. And that's just Houston alone. It isn't because they simply have no money to live where ever they want.. they want something familiar. People that are similar to them. It isn't exactly safer to be in a group of people you don't know at all and have nothing in common with. For either side. And you lack culture..

    I think maybe you don't see the value of any of that.. Having like-minded people around you, or people with similar tastes and interests. It's isolating to be somewhere too different.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    It always floors me how people find a million excuses not to exert the power they have, instead preferring to be victims so they can point the finger at the [insert bogieman of preference].
    Your position is unrealistic, impractical. If your goal is to alter the buying habits of a society, your suggestion will never actually accomplish that goal . In fact, it would be a waste of money. I remember the "Buy American" ad campaigns in the 80s. They were worthless. Now, you can assert that your position somehow makes you superior and everyone else is just a victim, but the only thing that accomplishes you stroking your own ego. It doesn't solve the problem we're discussing.

    Without the details, how can anyone understand the best course of action to take? There's generalised plans and flying blind with no parachute. Distinction.
    Well, if the criteria for discussing an issue like this is knowledge of all of the legal ramifications of any decision, we might as well just close down this sub forum.

    Since these ramifications are so important to you, why don't you inform everyone of what they are?
    Last edited by Lateralus; 12-11-2011 at 01:15 PM.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #63
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't find it so archaic at all.. Much of America is still sectioned off. Whole communities of Asians live all in the same area, to the point of having the street signs in Chinese. We have areas where the Hispanic populations are much more concentrated to the point where all the advertisements are in Spanish. And that's just Houston alone. It isn't because they simply have no money to live where ever they want.. they want something familiar. People that are similar to them. It isn't exactly safer to be in a group of people you don't know at all and have nothing in common with. For either side. And you lack culture..

    I think maybe you don't see the value of any of that.. Having like-minded people around you, or people with similar tastes and interests. It's isolating to be somewhere too different.
    I suppose I can understand the desire for familiarity, but not to the extent that most people do, certainly not to the point that it would keep me from moving to a different country (provided I spoke the language). I would miss little things like BBQ, large portion sizes and efficient highway systems, as well as a handful of people, but overall I don't think I would experience much grief moving to a different country.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I care about a small handful of people, but none more than myself. I prefer to think of it as peace and quiet, as loneliness is not on my list of frequently occurring emotions.
    So you're backtracking.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #65
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I suppose I can understand the desire for familiarity, but not to the extent that most people do, certainly not to the point that it would keep me from moving to a different country (provided I spoke the language). I would miss little things like BBQ, large portion sizes and efficient highway systems, as well as a handful of people, but overall I don't think I would experience much grief moving to a different country.
    You have a lot of stipulations for being comfortable though... In the end, I think maybe it's just harsh to say you really have no patriotism. Don't you make posts all the time about Libertarians and such? If you didn't care about America, why bother subscribing to politics at all?
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  6. #66
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    You have a lot of stipulations for being comfortable though... In the end, I think maybe it's just harsh to say you really have no patriotism. Don't you make posts all the time about Libertarians and such? If you didn't care about America, why bother subscribing to politics at all?
    I care about people abusing their power and people who are abused by power. deep down I'm still that kid who wanted to strangle the schoolyard bully every time he messed with another kid. I care about Libertarianism because:
    - it will effect me in the future (no matter where I live)
    - I agree with it's principles on a fundamental level, just because I don't care about most people doesn't mean I don't respect their rights as human beings. respect is more important than love
    - I enjoy debates, though I have been engaging in them somewhat less recently
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  7. #67
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    The notion of "national product" is riduculous since the most simple object currently has its manufacturing process through several countries toward the whole world. People who talk about "economic patriotism" are just worthless protectionists. A so called "foreign product" often employs more people in the country of the protectionist than is the foreign country that the protectionist is talking about.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Your position is unrealistic, impractical. If your goal is to alter the buying habits of a society, your suggestion will never actually accomplish that goal . In fact, it would be a waste of money. I remember the "Buy American" ad campaigns in the 80s. They were worthless. Now, you can assert that your position somehow makes you superior and everyone else is just a victim, but the only thing that accomplishes you stroking your own ego. It doesn't solve the problem we're discussing.
    lolwut? Stroking my own ego? That's a pretty fucked up perspective since there's no gain for me in suggesting this or if people would be less lazy and selfish and actually take some personal responsibility for things they can change instead of fixating about how Joe Smith has more than I do, not one wit or bit.

    Seriously, must the American people be nannyed? Are there no adults left who actually want to make a difference with what limited power they do have?

    Well, if the criteria for discussing an issue like this is knowledge of all of the legal ramifications of any decision, we might as well just close down this sub forum.

    Since these ramifications are so important to you, why don't you inform everyone of what they are?
    I've already stated that I don't have the information. Without the information, it would be gross negligence to suggest anything that impacts on the global platform, such as...oh my...slapping trade tariffs and pissing off other countries, the same countries that hold the American public debt by the balls.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    lolwut? Stroking my own ego? That's a pretty fucked up perspective since there's no gain for me in suggesting this or if people would be less lazy and selfish and actually take some personal responsibility for things they can change instead of fixating about how Joe Smith has more than I do, not one wit or bit.
    LOL, your characterization of the issue is what gives you away. You obviously get some sort of satisfaction out of it because you are displaying such strong negative feelings for people who aren't "adults".

    Seriously, must the American people be nannyed? Are there no adults left who actually want to make a difference with what limited power they do have?
    Simple cost/benefit analysis would show that it's far cheaper to alter tariffs to promote domestic production than to somehow brainwash 300 million people (if that were even possible). People aren't just going to buy domestic products because someone named Jenephor on a random internet forum thinks they're childish for not doing it. You haven't done anything but insult large groups of people for acting in a way millions of years of evolution programmed them to act.

    I've already stated that I don't have the information. Without the information, it would be gross negligence to suggest anything that impacts on the global platform, such as...oh my...slapping trade tariffs and pissing off other countries, the same countries that hold the American public debt by the balls.
    No, it would be gross negligence to implement a plan without knowing the ramifications. It's not grossly negligent to talk about it. What a silly position to take.

    That said, China only holds ~$1 trillion of US debt. The Fed has created $7.7 trillion since 2008. If China retaliated by threatening to dump their US debt holdings, what impact would it really have? I won't say it would be negligible, but I think people greatly exaggerate the potential threat. The Fed is a greater threat to the stability of the dollar than China.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #70
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The notion of "national product" is riduculous since the most simple object currently has its manufacturing process through several countries toward the whole world. People who talk about "economic patriotism" are just worthless protectionists. A so called "foreign product" often employs more people in the country of the protectionist than is the foreign country that the protectionist is talking about.
    Lots of words but no substance. US manufacturing has been decimated by "free trade". People who used to be able find a job in a factory paying them ~$40-50k per year now work at places like Wal-Mart, making $15-20k per year. This has been great for China, but it has had a cascading negative effect through our society. Families have less financial security, less disposable income. Both parents have to work more often. Parents have less time to spend with their children.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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