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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    Scrap it, hang the criminals and start over. And that is the tip of the iceberg.
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    if you want to see people unite, put the people who created this mess in jail.
    Amen.


  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I feel that this is where more patriotic themes come into play.. Americans rallying up to buy American and use American may not only detract from the appeal via peer pressure of leaving.. but also unite citizens. But I think that may be a bit too idealistic on my part.
    definitely. the people it would apply to are not the types who would succumb to "peer pressure". that would just make them say "fuck you" and want to leave even more

    At the end of the day though, I think we all should contribute.. I think less tax breaks, or lower tax returns, may just be essential for everyone, not just the rich. I just think the rich have a lot already, and although I respect that they built it themselves... having a lot means taking on a lot more responsibility. That's the way society is..
    a society is a place where people can exchange ideas, trade with each other and gain a higher standard of living through interdependence.

    Also, it could be spun on a more positive note for the companies. "We contributed x amount of money and we were involved in paying off 2% of the nation's debt alone!" The companies and the rich themselves could 'show off' patriotic tones to the citizens and encourage them to do the same.
    they already do.
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  3. #13
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    ^ Very true. It did work wonderfully for our last conservative president, didn't it?
    do not confuse George W. Bush with a fiscal conservative. the man nearly tripled the size of the federal government, waged 2 unconstitutional wars and and pushed the Patriot Act through Congress.
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  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Nonsense. Unilateral sacrifice would not address the big issue of the privileged not paying their fair share for benefits they receive. Why should fairness be optional?
    since when has paying 35% of your income been paying your fair share? that's ridiculous.

    We certainly need to coddle them or they will get mad and move their factories off shore, right?
    we just need to make it so that they don't have to pay millions upon millions in legislative tape fees to open up a factory here
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  5. #15
    Junior Member GatoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    That essentially, the US Treasury would absorb $72 Billion annually or something like that every year if they just stopped giving the upper 5% of America's wealth the tax breaks they currently have.
    The initial spending bill in 2008 was over $2300 billion ($2.3 trillion) and just last week, Congress signed a $600 billion spending bill, while we also dump a couple trillion (again trillion = 1000 billion) on both wars overseas each year.

    I just can't seem to care about a "measly" $72 billion when there are 3000+ billion here, 600 billion there.. being dumped right in front of us on things that most people in this country are against, and for wars many people voted last election specifically to end.

    Oh, and don't forget that Bloomberg reported the Fed doing secret payouts to the tune of $7 trillion and above. The real numbers are more like $30 trillion over the last several years. $30 trillion!

    Seems like going after the rich is small potatoes, IMO. Sure, we can go after them next, but I doubt we'd have to if we fixed the out of control spending and waste in Washington first.

  6. #16
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    In government, 72 billion isn't nearly as much as it sounds like, so that alone wouldn't fix much. Never the less, it would be a better way to use that money than to burn on tax breaks.
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  7. #17
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    since when has paying 35% of your income been paying your fair share? that's ridiculous.
    Since when has it not?

    we just need to make it so that they don't have to pay millions upon millions in legislative tape fees to open up a factory here
    That's not why they offshore. It's so they can pay workers a fraction of what would be demanded in the US, skimp on environmental and worker safety provisions, and pocket the "savings" as extra profit. They're making more money for doing nothing that is actually productive or beneficial to the economy as a whole.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Tiger Owl's Avatar
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    Barstool Economics:

    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100…

    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    So, that’s what they decided to do.

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

    They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
    The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

    “I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”

    “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

    “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

    “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important; they didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    Taking notice of this was a Chinese man at the end of the bar who said “I could loan you difference.”
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    definitely. the people it would apply to are not the types who would succumb to "peer pressure". that would just make them say "fuck you" and want to leave even more
    So the United States dont let themselves be blackmailed by terrorists but by their own upper class ?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    Barstool Economics:
    [...]
    Politics always have a rational and an emotional side. If you would ignore one of those sides, you'ld fail in politics.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    Barstool Economics:

    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100…

    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    So, that’s what they decided to do.

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

    They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
    The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

    “I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”

    “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

    “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

    “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important; they didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    Taking notice of this was a Chinese man at the end of the bar who said “I could loan you difference.”
    This entire exercise was pointless because not all the men get equal amounts of beer. The richest man gets more beer than the other 9 combined.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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