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  1. #81
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Raw data doesn't always tell you everything. Take into account why they happen. In heroin's case, it's often because the typical user is using cut/weak heroin. They get used to certain dosages with that stuff. Along comes something better, and they take the same dosage but at a higher quality, and they never wake up. And often, they can't tell what's strong or not, unless somehow the dealer knows.

    Dirty syringes and having the heroin cut with dangerous or bacterial ridden substances lead to death or disease too.

    Also, the whole culture is seedy and dangerous.

    All of these are market problems.
    All of the things you have listed are consequences of prohibition and a lack of regulation

    We have taken an objectively dangerous substance (most opiates can easily suppress ventilation and kill with even slight deviation from a "safe" dose) and made it extremely dangerous

  2. #82
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I wish that wasn't true.

    Both are similar in that they're stimulants. Coke used to be the more popular drug, and Meth only something brave souls who befriended weird tow truck drivers and bikers could get ahold of... who were always married to some equally weird chick who looked like Olive Oil from Popeye, but pregnant and no teeth. Now Coke is almost sort of a preppy drug, and Meth still cheap as in it's ghetto days.. but much more popular.
    Coke has always been rather expensive. I can't remember a time when it was cheap. ? But yes, in the 80's, it was definitely the drug of choice. 90's - Ecstasy. Meth - Started hitting in the 90's. At least where I lived..... Yep, Coke is for rich businessfolk who want to stay up and work more hours ha.

    ------------------------

    I think the question is: Would it cause more people to choose to do the drugs if they were legal? Would they be more readily-available to our children? Would it cause more widespread usage? This is my concern. If we look, cigarettes and alcohol are widespreadly used. We all know people who don't imbibe, but who hasn't tried it? I think it might be alot more dangerous to try heroin from an addictive aspect. So how are we going to monitor distribution? It's all unknown from a practical aspect. Is someone going to just say, "Oh, I think I'll go down to the cornerstore and become a definite addict today"? We all know that most of us wouldn't go there, but what about those who would? Don't they need to be protected? I suppose yea, you could put in rehab centers for those who did. What's so different when if I desire heroin, all's I have to do is go a couple of blocks and find it anyways. I suppose we could distribute only to those areas where the drugs are in demand, and that would definitely cut down on crime. No more gangs and that's a great thing.
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  3. #83
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    Actually, I just realized something, MDMA/Ecstacy turns people into EFP's:

    Originally posted by Wikipedia
    The primary effects attributable to MDMA consumption are predictable and fairly consistent among users. In general, users report feeling effects within 30–60 minutes of consumption, hitting a peak at approximately 1–1.5 hours, reaching a plateau that lasts about 2–3 hours, followed by a comedown of a few hours, which may be accompanied by fatigue and minor effects.[21][22][23]

    The most common effects reported by users include:[24]
    A general and subjective alteration in consciousness
    A strong sense of inner peace and self-acceptance
    Diminished aggression, hostility, and jealousy
    Diminished fear, anxiety, and insecurity
    Extreme mood lift with accompanying euphoria
    Feelings of empathy, compassion, and forgiveness toward others
    Feelings of intimacy and even love for others
    Improved self-confidence
    The ability to discuss normally anxiety-provoking topics with marked ease
    An intensification of all of the bodily senses (hearing, touch, smell, vision, taste)
    Substantial enhancement of the appreciation of music quality
    Mild psychedelia, consisting of mental imagery and auditory and visual distortions
    Stimulation, arousal, and hyperactivity (e.g., many users get an "uncontrollable urge to dance" while under the influence)
    Increased energy and endurance
    Increased alertness, awareness, and wakefulness
    Increased desire, drive, and motivation
    Analgesia or decreased pain sensitivity
    Would more EFP's be a good or bad thing for society?

  4. #84
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post

    I think the question is: Would it cause more people to choose to do the drugs if they were legal? Would they be more readily-available to our children? Would it cause more widespread usage? This is my concern.
    According to reality (not hypothetically), when drug use is fully decriminalized:

    HIV infection rates plummet

    Drug overdose plummets

    Crime plummets

    Number of drug addicts decreases by 50%

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...riminalization

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...portugal-users

    One could argue that these are all coincidental, but I would imagine that there is a strong argument for decriminalization, given the incredible results seen within a few years of the enacted policy

  5. #85
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    According to reality (not hypothetically), when drug use is fully decriminalized:

    HIV infection rates plummet

    Drug overdose plummets

    Crime plummets

    Number of drug addicts decreases by 50%

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...riminalization

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...portugal-users

    One could argue that these are all coincidental, but I would imagine that there is a strong argument for decriminalization, given the incredible results seen within a few years of the enacted policy
    Good proof for pro-decriminalization.
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  6. #86
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    Legalise it, to remove the dangers and violence of the products that are prohibition related.
    Legalise it and cut the profits of the cartels instantly.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I'm with @Saturned. We should let evolution eliminate the weak.

    But legalizing ectasy alone isn't wise. I mean, these creatures evolve.
    Average human beings: Born>Grow>Reproduce>Die (aprox. 75 years)
    Junkie: Born>''Grow''>marijuana phase>meth phase>ectasy phase>cocaine phase>heroin phase> Die (aprox. 35 years)
    See, if just ectasy is legalized those morons can't progress. We gotta let them go all the way. If we make the evolution from ectasy to cocaine illegal and expensive, these crackpots are gonna start stealing and giving all the money to the drug dealers and soon these will get powerful enough to dominate the world and we will enter the Drug Economy era.
    I was wondering when we'd see the flawed "marijuana is a gateway drug" argument.

    If these drugs are legalized, drug cartels won't be reaping those profits. The cartels won't exist anymore. They will go out of business because they can't compete with Wall Street.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #88
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Actually, I just realized something, MDMA/Ecstacy turns people into EFP's:



    Would more EFP's be a good or bad thing for society?
    ha...this is true! an istj on x is just like an enfp haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #89
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    I think this is where you got me. I'll go over it again (have to run..), but I don't think we are talking about the same thing.
    The topic is about legalizing drugs. This study covers decriminalizing drugs. There is a difference...
    A supply-side difference. Full legalization is actually better than just decriminalization because then you're also kicking the drug cartels out of the business. There is no drug cartel on the planet that can even come close to competing with a company like Wal-Mart, so fears of people like Pablo Escobar becoming more powerful (due to legalization) are pretty ridiculous.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #90
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    Plugging this, relevant and I like the man speak
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyystXOfDqo"]Milton Friedman on America's Drug Forum pt.1of3[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37-zCyI6rmk"]Milton Friedman on America's Drug Forum pt.2of3[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZNeZUROVM0"]Milton Friedman on America's Drug Forum pt.3of3[/YOUTUBE]

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