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  1. #21
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    hell even coffee.
    Alright man, it's time to put down the crackpipe.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Alright man, it's time to put down the crackpipe.
    If you are sleepy, you sleep. You don't drug yourself up.

    The only other alternative is to impose arbitrary rules that say one drug is more appropriate than another...which would just be cultural bias for the most part.

    Ever stop to think why western drug dealers are millionaires while non-western drug dealers are in jail?
    "That's just how it is.."
    Yeah, we've noticed...

  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    If you are sleepy, you sleep. You don't drug yourself up.
    You're taking it to the extreme. What would you say about most foods then? An apple could give you an energy boost too.

    Personally, I could take or leave caffiene myself. I just like the taste of coffee and espresso.

  4. #24
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Legalize it.

    http://maps.org/

  5. #25
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    If your use isn't to cognitively alter yourself, then whatever. The main point was to bring a consistency about this subject while simultaneously thinking of a practical solution.
    I guess I should have said caffeine. Caffeine, in it's raw form, (forgive me, i dont know the exact science)..isn't any more justifiable than any other drug..especially when used to purposefully alter your cognitive state. Coffee is different, and should be treated so.

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    Legalize it.

    http://maps.org/
    I like how the headline says "Supporting Psychedelic and Medical Marijauna Research". Does that mean they support just "plain" psychedelic research, and only reserve "medical" for marijauna?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    I'd go the opposite way. Criminalize it all. The bottom line is that people will always do drugs..legalizing it or not won't affect that too much.
    However making any cognitive altering substance legal sends a message that having your cognitive abilities altered is acceptable, something I don't think is true, or at least up to the government to decide. By legalizing drugs all you are really doing is saying that the government thinks it's ok to sell drugs to the public, and pretty soon we have a society that is dependant on drugs to function...or at least more so than if they were illegal.

    Make it all illegal...alcohol, weed, cocaine, those antidepressants, adhd drugs, hell even coffee and those energy drinks ( particularly if marketed such that it encourages people to think it cognitively alters you)..and impose fines, rather than jail sentences, on people who break the law.

    This would have the effect of
    1. Consistency
    2. A freer and more open environment from which to experiment if you are so inclined.
    3. A clear signal that society encourages people to be themeselves, and not hide behind substances.
    4. A taking away of the drug use decision from the government and putting it where, I think, it belongs..with the people in the first place.
    5. Economic incentives from fines.

    Really, the only party that would be disadvantaged would be the companies that make a killing off of feeding drug addictions (booze, cigs, and happy pills)...and at the end of the day legislature is supposed to protect the interests of the people..not the companies.

    "Supposed to" being the key phrase there.

    This seems to me to be the most practically logical solution. The alternatives either lead to nightmarish scenarios (I'd be the first one to buy meth stocks if it were made legal lol), or are ultimately arbitrary and therefor illogical and unhelpful to society in the first place.
    Evidence does not support your position.

    Drug decriminalization has not lead to an increase in use in Portugal. In fact, it may have actually lead to a decrease in drug use. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

    Prohibition leads to violence. That's a pretty heavy price to pay for something for which there is no evidence of it actually working (reducing the incidence of drug dependency).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Evidence does not support your position.

    Drug decriminalization has not lead to an increase in use in Portugal. In fact, it may have actually lead to a decrease in drug use. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

    Prohibition leads to violence. That's a pretty heavy price to pay for something for which there is no evidence of it actually working (reducing the incidence of drug dependency).
    That actually supports my position.
    If there isn't evidence that the law even matters when it comes to drugs then it becomes more about what position society should take in response to drugs, as reflected in its legislature.

    Rationally, society can either say "we support all drugs", "we don't support any drugs", or "we support some drugs, here's why". As a collective, those are the only three responses possible. I've argued one is dangerously flawed and of the other two, one is more appropriate.

    "Prohibition leads to violence."-So people are going to start killing people because they can't get a fix? And this is an argument for a positive response to drugs?Again, my issue isn't with drug dependance. My position assumes drug dependance is a given. My issue is with society's response to drug use. If idiots want to waste their life on drugs then, in my opinion, that's their perogative. My position actually supports this, practically speaking. (I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't say I supported some measure of experimentation.) However, it puts the decision of drug use in a would be drug users hands' and focuses instead on limiting the use of drugs through an outright and consistent condemnation of any cognitive altering substance.

    Here, I'll do your job for you. Here is where I'm wrong.

    and pretty soon we have a society that is dependant on drugs to function...or at least more so than if they were illegal.
    slight slippery slope. the government might be able to regulate it better and avoid this, though I don't trust the government to regulate anything with any effeciency..but that's just because I'm cynical.

    The alternatives either lead to nightmarish scenarios (I'd be the first one to buy meth stocks if it were made legal lol), or are ultimately arbitrary and therefor illogical and unhelpful to society in the first place.
    Some drugs can be helpful to soceity..or at least an argument can be made for this. ADHD meds come to mind. As a result, if society does have a responsibility to preserve itself, some cognitive altering drugs should be allowed as a consequence.

    However, this position can be refuted by pointing out "preserving society" isn't necessarily dependant on it's populace's drug use, though you could argue that it can be in certain situations. (An axe murderer who, under a drug induced state, becomes a teacher but is prevented from using these drugs because of societys own laws, has a case against society...assuming he want's to teach, but can't without drugs.)

    However, of the options available to society, one is clearly all around "better"..at least in my estimation.

  9. #29
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    yeah its pretty harmless compared to other drugs, the comedown is a bitch and doing too much can make you stupid but so can anything if you do too much of it. I'm biased though because I think all drugs should be legal. even the nasty dangerous ones id never do, because prohibition just does not work. drugs will always exist no matter what anyone tries to do about it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I am entirely aware of how bad they are. That being said, criminalizing them is an expensive process that at best does nothing but could actually be making things worse.
    True, but rather than make hard-core drugs like mth or crack available to the public I'd be in favor or rehab clinics as an alternative to imprisonment.

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