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  1. #201
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    False. Firstly, I never stated "you're wrong" so don't quote me as if I did. Secondly, I did explain why I am against legalizing ecstasy. Thirdly, my reasoning isn't circular, if you follow the relevant data instead of reaching out in left field for french fries. Funny, but irrelevant.
    Yes, you did. By claiming my position was illogical, you said my position was wrong. Then you failed to provide any support for your claim, even though I had already provided some for mine. You have explained why you're against legalizing ecstasy, but your reasoning is refuted by scientific data. Despite the existence of this data, you continue to believe something that is false.

    I say No, using my reasoning we would compare ecstasy to heroin, or other similar illegal recreational street drug that alters normal brain function. BTW, "recreational drug" is a legal term and I provided the definition for you in a previous post. The U.S. separately defines narcotic drugs and controlled substances, which may include non-drugs, and explicitly excludes tobacco, caffeine and alcoholic beverages. And implicitly excludes french fries. Yes, I just weeded out the 'real' arbitrary data.
    Do you have a point? Or is this just a blatant appeal to authority?

    Why arbitrary? Besides the obvious, we don't add fuel to a fire that's already out of control. We don't half-ass remove laws and hope for the best.
    You're assuming a lot with these statements. What's out of control is drug trafficking violence. What's out of control is the fact that young, inner city kids see the easy money they can get selling drugs (which is only possible because of prohibition) and decide school isn't that important, so they end up either dead or in prison and the cycle continues. What's out of control is the fact that the US imprisons a higher percentage of its people than any other nation on the planet, including bastions of freedom like North Korea and Iran.

    No one plans on "half-ass" removing any laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    You want your sammich? You want your drugs? ...Cry me a river.
    You can't write a single post on this subject without accusing your "opponent" of being a drug user. Pathetic.

    I don't care about freedoms for someone that wants to take street ecstasy for recreational purposes (i.e., as one member indicated, "getting in touch with other planes of existence") and possibly irresponsibly taking out a family in an SUV while driving under the influence.
    We already have laws against that. It's called DUI. While we're on this subject, I would have no problem if the penalty for your first DUI offense was life in prison. Driving under the influence is an incredibly reckless act that we take far too lightly. But what is reckless is the driving while intoxicated, not the drinking. We should punish what is actually a crime, and nothing more. The same should apply to drug use. Use all you want, but once you cross that line and harm someone else, it's over for you.

    I feel more freedom knowing I live in a society where street ecstasy is illegal and law enforcement gets the users off the streets that my tax dollars pay for. Yes, I'm happy to pay for their prison stay to get them out of my hair. Have a nice life. I don't use illegal drugs, thus I don't feel my freedoms are taken away. I'm sorry for those that do, but seriously seek professional help, a travel agent, a fun hobby, anything. There are safer, more productive, more fulfilling, more rewarding recreational activities out there with longer-term benefits than taking street drugs. Take care of you.
    Do you feel more freedom knowing that many police officers get corrupted by the War on Drugs? Do you feel more freedom knowing that in certain neighborhoods innocent people get caught in the crossfire of drug turf wars? Probably. As long as it's not your neighborhood, why would you care?

    A street ecstasy pill may contain a cocktail of psychedelics and stimulants: ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, paramethoxyamphetamine (PMA), methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), dextromethorphan, amphetamine, methamphetamine, ketamine, LSD, and heroin.
    And if it was legalized, it wouldn't contain these other substances. The FDA would regulate it. What a stupid argument.

    Perhaps you are talking about Ecstasy being legalized for medicinal purposes? which I believe MDMA may already be in the process of being legalized, but it appears most other members here are talking about legalization of street drugs for recreational usage, which is a controversial issue that I most often hear debated. And again, street ecstasy is dirty (see the possible ingredients I listed above).
    Again, if it was legalized, we could make it so that it is no longer "dirty". What a stupid argument, yet you used it twice in the same post.

    I'm guessing street ecstasy would be quite different from MDMA that one would get lagally from a pharmacy. I have no problem with doctors prescribing drugs for legitimate ailments and educating people on drug interaction and dosage. I do have a problem with a free-for-all lawless society where people do whatever the heck they want without regard for their own safety or the safety of others.
    A "free-for-all lawless society"? Really? Can you show me where anyone has said there shouldn't be any laws? A lot of pro-legalization people want most drugs to be handled similarly to how alcohol is handled. Would you characterize the way alcohol is currently handled as a "free-for-all" or lawless? I sure wouldn't. This is another straw man argument by you.

    Let's look at Mexico for a moment. What has happened south of the border since a 'model' law has been enacted legalizing drugs?
    Mexico did NOT legalize drugs. Get your facts straight. Mexico decriminalized possession of small amounts of some drugs. This does absolutely nothing to address the violence by the cartels because the cartels move drugs in much larger amounts and that is STILL ILLEGAL.

    There has developed an out and out war among drug dealers that have killed thousands over a four year period during which drugs have been for all intents and purposes legalized. Mexico is practically run by drug lords now.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Mexico was run by drug lords LONG before this law was passed. And to try to argue that this law somehow made Mexican drug lords so powerful is beyond stupid. They get their money from selling drugs in the US, and this law had absolutely no affect on the part of the drug trade. Zilch. Zero.

    Based on what I learned in Psychology 101, I'll theorize that people are more likely to avoid taking illegal drugs, if there are negative consequences for their behavior: jail time, fines, a felony...
    If this is what you learned, then your teacher sucked. Have you ever heard of the allure of the forbidden?

    lolz, Alcohol is on a billboard. Cigs are not. So what. Let's flip a coin for ecstasy then.
    There's no need to flip a coin. If it's legal for ecstasy to be advertised, it will be. If it's not, it won't be. We probably both agree that advertising ecstasy on billboards is not a good idea, so I don't think it's something for you to worry about. There's no need for you to grasp for this straw anymore.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #202
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    I find it absolutely unacceptable that even one penny of my tax dollars go toward enforcing prohibition

    I am a citizen

  3. #203
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I find it absolutely unacceptable that even one penny of my tax dollars go toward enforcing prohibition

    I am a citizen
    Same here.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #204
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #205
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    so...i read more about this last night after my last post and i think i've changed my mind. i think americans are way too controlling...we've even strong armed the dutch into changing their laws. wtf. i still don't like the idea of people being able to get their hands on super addictive substances more easily but i certainly like the idea of them being offered treatment instead of jail time or a fine. and...i like the idea of cannabis cafes...i do not think one single person should be doing jail time for smoking marijuana. i personally think it should be legal over alcohol if we had to choose.

    so yes to decriminalization and yes to making non addictive drugs legal in the same way that alcohol is.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #206
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    so yes to decriminalization and yes to making non addictive drugs legal in the same way that alcohol is.
    Alcohol is an extremely addictive drug. I believe it is one of the few recreational drugs in the world which can manifest fatal withdrawal symptoms.

  7. #207
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Tend to be of the mindset with the presumption of ending prohibition.

    I really don't like my tax dollars spent on building and maintaining prisons for 'victimless crimes'. I think time in prison will mess a brotha up more than a tab of X.

    In the very least let it be downgraded from a schedual 1 drug (along with that vicious weed marijuana) see see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...drugs_%28US%29 to a schedule 2 drug under federal law (like those pansy drugs methamphetimine and cocaine ;-)) .

    I really don't think that their would be much trouble to let those dieing of cancer to have a little rave; do you?
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  8. #208
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Alcohol is an extremely addictive drug. I believe it is one of the few recreational drugs in the world which can manifest fatal withdrawal symptoms.
    i know that it is...i didn't mean to imply otherwise when i said non addictive drugs should be legal in the same way. i just meant that the laws should be the same. like you can't drive under the influence or be all high causing a scene on the street..etc.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #209
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Plain Packaging of Tabacco

    We have had another victory.

    From July next year all cigarettes must be sold in olive green packages without any advertising.

    We can tell how successful this will be because the tabacco companies are screenng blue murder and taking my government to our High Court.

    Fortunately my government has the backbone and wherewithall to fight the tabacco companies in the High Court.

    So we have the tobacco companies versus the sovereign governent of Australia. Who do you think will win?

  10. #210
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i know that it is...i didn't mean to imply otherwise when i said non addictive drugs should be legal in the same way. i just meant that the laws should be the same. like you can't drive under the influence or be all high causing a scene on the street..etc.
    It is already against the law to drive while impaired by prescription and recreational drugs, including insulin, marijuana, LSD, alcohol, sleeping pills, etc.

    Likewise, creating a public disturbance through drunkenness is illegal regardless of the legality of alcohol.

    Why would these laws be any different if certain drugs were decriminalized?

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