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  1. #181
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    2. Why are you so focused on heroin? This thread is about ecstacy. I know it has diverged some, but you're totally focused on a tangent.
    Because heroin is the worst case scenario and smileyman cares about people? Like ecstasy, heroin is a recreational drug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    3. I agree that heroin is more addictive than other drugs and should, therefore, be treated differently.
    Looky there, you answered your own question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    But I still do not agree that prohibition is the way to go. We need to control the manufacture and distribution in some way. Prohibition prevents us from doing that. If we can control the quality of the drug and track who is using, many lives can be saved.
    There's no logical comparison there to support your case. If anything you just shot yourself in the foot. Ron Paul tries to make a similar argument and it doesn't make any logical sense with regards to the big picture. [Please keep reading for clarification.]

    I never mentioned anything about Christianity [or morals]. As I stated before, recreational drugs are unnecessary and add an extra toll on your liver and pancreas for what? Recreation? You already get enough drug from other sources as you've already indicated. As for Aspirin, it serves a medicinal purpose to alleviate pain amongst other things. I'm not following your logic or justification to legalize mind altering drugs like ecstacy and to ingest powerful drugs like that, which change serotonin levels in the brain, for the fun of it. Aspirin is not mind altering.

    Many people die from the already legal drugs out there and take lives of innocent people; such as, victims of drunk drivers, so why add more legal drugs and crazies? But that's beside the point. It's legal and I could care less if it was suddenly illegal tomorrow. I didn't invent alcohol, nor did I agree to make it legal, as that was long before my time. I do however agree with the laws in place to punish drug abusers that make poor decisions like driving intoxicated that negatively impact society.

    Furthermore, MDMA changes the chemistry of the brain by releasing a high level of serotonin. As far as I know there aren't any legal over the counter drugs that will do that for you, which means a drug like that should be dispensed by a doctor or pharmacy with education on the proper usage, drug interactions, and side-effects. I'm not aware of any recreational drugs prescribed for the purposes of recreation, or any legal severely mind altering pills in a bottle marketed specifically for that purpose over/under the counter. Are you? EDIT: It doesn't make sense that there would be. Again, there's no logical benefit to society. The costs would outweigh the benefits, as far as I can see.

    I'm a logical person. I'm struggling to see the benefit to society to market [or simply legalize] recreational drugs in a bottle. As I said in my first post, people should learn how to deal with reality in their natural state of mind; unless you have a legitimate health problem, then there should be medical exceptions just like there is for weed; under a doctor's care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    4. People seem to think that legalization = billboards advertising drugs or something to that effect. It doesn't. It just allows us to control how, when, and where a drug is sold.
    Do you have a crystal ball? If we go by your alcohol example, the drugs will end up on billboards. There are several billboards in my city advertising alcohol.

  2. #182
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    absolutely...smiley man wins.

    we don't need any more super addictive substances being legalized. we do need more treatment options for those who are already addicted.
    this topic scares me...i worry so much that my kids will be tempted and struggle...and it breaks my heart. i want more people to get the kind of help they need. i want something to work...why can't peeps understand that there's no "fun" in being addicted to something...you just don't mess with the addictive stuff.
    Our drug policy has been a major contributor to the political instability in Mexico. That affects more than 110 million people. That's a much greater harm committed because people like you want to continue a policy that has no verifiable impact on drug use. If you include all Central and South American nations harmed by our policy, we're talking about hundreds of millions of people whose lives we have made worse due to a policy that doesn't even work.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #183
    Junior Member ESFP's Avatar
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    "Drugs are dangerous, the state shouldn't leave people alone with them." If it's illegal, it's easier for the state to take care. I don't want to say it was a good decision to illegalize it, but that way the state is allowed to take care. With legal drugs, nicotine, alcohol, and cars, it's much harder to take care. That's my point. I don't support illegality because I like the idea of it, I just support it because I think it's a useful tool for drug prevention. If it was possible to keep people from damaging their health without any laws, I would be fine with it. However, I don't think that's already become reality.

  4. #184
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    The "war on drugs" has caused the US to imprison more people than any other nation in the history of the world, currently 23% of the entire prison population on earth is in the US. To even think to compare heroin to alcohol in its acceptance is completely flawed, how many people do you know that think heroin is a good idea? The people who are going to do heroin/mdma/crack/meth do it already. Might as well make it safe and prevent the spread of disease and useless imprisonment of people.
    Whoops.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No, you didn't.
    Hopefully, my previous post will add clarity.

  6. #186
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Because heroin is the worst case scenario and smileyman cares about people? Like ecstacy, Heroin is a recreational drug.
    You didn't even read the link. His post was about heroin. His link was about alcohol, not ecstacy.

    Looky there, you answered your own question.
    Differently =/= Prohibition

    There's no logical comparison there to support your case. If anything you just shot yourself in the foot. Ron Paul tries to make a similar argument and it doesn't make any logical sense with regards to the big picture. [Please keep reading for clarification.]
    I have already given my reasoning as to why this is true. You haven't explained anything. All you say is "you're wrong", the use circular reasoning to justify your position.

    I never mentioned anything about Christianity.
    Doesn't matter. You've got that vibe. I grew up surrounded by that vibe and it disgusts me.

    As I stated before, recreational drugs are unnecessary and add an extra toll on your liver and pancreas for what? Recreation? You already get enough drug from other sources as you already indicated.
    Your position is full of arbitrary double standards. Using your reasoning, french fries should be illegal because they contribute to heart disease. If I wanted to take the time, I could list 1000 different substances humans consume that harm them in some way and are unnecessary.

    As for Aspirin, it serves a medicinal purpose to alleviate pain amongst other things. I'm not following your logic or justification to dispense mind altering drugs like ecstacy just for the fun of it. Aspirin is not mind altering.
    It's not "just for the fun of it". No one has ever said it's "just for the fun of it". That's a disingenuous argument on your part, and deliberately so because your argument is so weak, logically.

    Many people die from the already legal drugs out there; such as, victims of drunk drivers, so why add more legal drugs and crazies? But that's beside the point. It's legal and I could care less if it was suddenly illegal tomorrow. I didn't invent alcohol, nor did I agree to make it legal, as that was long before my time. I do however agree with the laws in place to punish drug abusers that make poor decisions like drinking and driving that can negatively impact society.
    This paragraph is based on the flawed assumption that making drugs illegal will increase drug use. I feel like I've said this 1000 times already, but the data does not support this assumption.

    Furthermore, MDMA changes the chemistry of the brain by releasing a high level of serotonin. As far as I know there aren't any legal over the counter drugs that will do that for you, which means a drug like that should be dispensed by a doctor or pharmacy with education on the proper usage, drug interactions, and side-effects. I'm not aware of any recreational drugs prescribed for the purposes of recreation, or any pills in a bottle specifically for that purpose over the counter. Are you?
    Circular logic FTL. I'm getting tired of refuting this crap. It's so bad, even a 10 year old would be able to blow up the flawed logic in your shitty posts.

    I'm a logical person.
    LOL, no, you're not. You have your beliefs and all input must pass through the confirmation bias filter that your beliefs have created.

    I'm struggling to see the benefit to society to market [or simply legalize] recreational drugs in a bottle. As I said in my first post, people should learn how to deal with reality in their natural state of mind; unless you have a legitimate health problem then there should be medical exceptions just like there is for weed; under a doctor's care.
    You love to tell people what they should and shouldn't do. You're quite an authoritarian. But it's not surprising. You're obviously a Republican. You believe it's perfectly fine for the government to intervene in peoples' personal lives, to tell them what they can and cannot eat or drink, who they can marry, and so on. But DON'T TOUCH YOUR WALLET! THAT'S TYRANNY!

    Do you have a crystal ball? If we go by your alcohol example, the drugs will end up on billboards. There are several billboards in my city advertising alcohol.
    /facepalm
    How many cigarette billboards do you see today? Jesus Christ.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #187
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    The only argument against legalization or even decriminalization is "some people can't control themselves", but those usually aren't the kind of people who follow the law to begin with.
    Whoops.

  8. #188
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    The "war on drugs" has caused the US to imprison more people than any other nation in the history of the world, currently 23% of the entire prison population on earth is in the US. To even think to compare heroin to alcohol in its acceptance is completely flawed, how many people do you know that think heroin is a good idea? The people who are going to do heroin/mdma/crack/meth do it already. Might as well make it safe and prevent the spread of disease and useless imprisonment of people.
    Nerd Girl is beyond the reach of logic and evidence. She has her beliefs and there is nothing you can say, no matter how logical or supported by evidence, that will cause her to question her position.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #189
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFP View Post
    "Drugs are dangerous, the state shouldn't leave people alone with them." If it's illegal, it's easier for the state to take care. I don't want to say it was a good decision to illegalize it, but that way the state is allowed to take care. With legal drugs, nicotine, alcohol, and cars, it's much harder to take care. That's my point. I don't support illegality because I like the idea of it, I just support it because I think it's a useful tool for drug prevention. If it was possible to keep people from damaging their health without any laws, I would be fine with it. However, I don't think that's already become reality.
    The data does not support your position. Read up on the decriminalization in Portugal.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #190
    Junior Member ESFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The data does not support your position. Read up on the decriminalization in Portugal.
    I don't believe in science. I believe in the state.

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