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Thread: Generation Sell

  1. #31

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    I've been thinking about it too, at least since I've heard more and more coverage on the radio of national and international economists suggesting that the decisions in the UK by the conservatives are not actual economic but rather political, that is to say that at a time when the economy really demands some moderately keynesian policy the conservatives are still trying very hard to serve their core constituency's selfish agenda.

    I had not thought of it in that way, given that when I've read accounts of conservatism which are more dated, at least those which predate monetarism, the eighties market ideology and market libertarian gurus, they all decry economics as dismal and suggest that statesmanship or state authority, through the medium of politics, such have primacy.

    However, it makes sense, the version of economics which conservatism in the UK is exploiting at the moment has more to do with "home economics" or the economics of the average citizen who consciously chooses to spend within their limits sensibly, ie that's a normative schema, its not how governments at any time in history have acted, rather than economics proper.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've been thinking about it too, at least since I've heard more and more coverage on the radio of national and international economists suggesting that the decisions in the UK by the conservatives are not actual economic but rather political, that is to say that at a time when the economy really demands some moderately keynesian policy the conservatives are still trying very hard to serve their core constituency's selfish agenda.
    That's a rather odd way of putting it, since politics and economics are to a large extent overlap on many accounts. I mean economics was originally went by the term Political Economy for example.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've been thinking about it too, at least since I've heard more and more coverage on the radio of national and international economists suggesting that the decisions in the UK by the conservatives are not actual economic but rather political, that is to say that at a time when the economy really demands some moderately keynesian policy the conservatives are still trying very hard to serve their core constituency's selfish agenda.
    That's a rather odd way of putting it, since politics and economics are to a large extent overlap on many accounts. I mean economics was originally went by the term Political Economy for example.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's a rather odd way of putting it, since politics and economics are to a large extent overlap on many accounts. I mean economics was originally went by the term Political Economy for example.
    I certainly agree, although I do maintain a certain dichotomy between politics and economics, while I would say that economics can create or provide the overall framework within which everyone has to operate and it also provides limitations in that process politics is more about contesting, conflicting even, constituencies seeking to defy that framework or at least seek their own advantage in it.

    So when the economy may demand comprises from all classes political agents may try to ensure that some classes make greater compromises than others or endevour to orchestrate a situation in which some class doesnt need to compromise itself or its interests at all.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I certainly agree, although I do maintain a certain dichotomy between politics and economics, while I would say that economics can create or provide the overall framework within which everyone has to operate and it also provides limitations in that process politics is more about contesting, conflicting even, constituencies seeking to defy that framework or at least seek their own advantage in it.

    So when the economy may demand comprises from all classes political agents may try to ensure that some classes make greater compromises than others or endevour to orchestrate a situation in which some class doesnt need to compromise itself or its interests at all.
    So politics operate within the larger economic "superstructure" so to speak?

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So politics operate within the larger economic "superstructure" so to speak?
    To use the old Marxist lingo, yes

    Although I'm in two minds as to whether or not it is the final superstructure, Weber's study of caste in India and its impact as cultural factor prevailing over economic relationships still exercises its influence on me, although Tawney's Religion and the rise of Capitalism would suggest those cultural factors are in decline and eventually the economic will be the only arbitrator of value or norms. Maybe, maybe not.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To use the old Marxist lingo, yes

    Although I'm in two minds as to whether or not it is the final superstructure, Weber's study of caste in India and its impact as cultural factor prevailing over economic relationships still exercises its influence on me, although Tawney's Religion and the rise of Capitalism would suggest those cultural factors are in decline and eventually the economic will be the only arbitrator of value or norms. Maybe, maybe not.
    Well we've certainly seen the rise of what one can call Economism, which stresses the primacy of economic considerations over everything else. A market society as opposed to merely a market economy. Economy certainly conditions social structures and whatnot, but that's still different from saying that they determine them altogether. I would stress culture as the more primary superstructure than economics.

  8. #38
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    This is a very interesting take on the present mindset of the millennium generation. Startlingly, though I am an idealistic person, I found myself agreeing that business-related future plans are in works at the back of my head. Personally, I would rather solve one of the Millennium Challenge math problems and get a cool million, but realistically if ever I got a financial break, I would invest (ouch, business speak) it in a small business.
    Though my reasons are far from entrepreneurship, and I'd just want to be able to roam free knowing my widowed mom is secure financially and all that, I still looked at the business idea as the practical solution to my idealistic dreams.
    Eye-opening, vasilisa. Kudos.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_Kirch View Post
    This is a very interesting take on the present mindset of the millennium generation. Startlingly, though I am an idealistic person, I found myself agreeing that business-related future plans are in works at the back of my head. Personally, I would rather solve one of the Millennium Challenge math problems and get a cool million, but realistically if ever I got a financial break, I would invest (ouch, business speak) it in a small business.
    Though my reasons are far from entrepreneurship, and I'd just want to be able to roam free knowing my widowed mom is secure financially and all that, I still looked at the business idea as the practical solution to my idealistic dreams.
    Eye-opening, vasilisa. Kudos.
    I think the small business dream is about independence and being your own boss.

    I think that's the same dream which moved many of those who attacked the business dreams of the past, syndicalists, socialists, marxists, communists, the whole lot.

    Unfortunately I dont believe that small businesses will provide or deliver on the dream anymore than the other hopeful attempts to put the world to rights did. Although I wish you luck, why wouldnt I? If even a single soul can realise their dreams in the space of a single life time I like to think that the world can be better for it. Provided the soul's not Hitler that is.

  10. #40
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    Subconsciously (in relation to the expression of personality and character) entrepreneurship is fueled by need, so it has a down side that is, it is not a human expression. it is a forced doing, a vicious one (not from the perspective of contribution for survival but) from the perspective that it requires deceiving others for it to work, either in the most basic ways appealing to ones desires based on what the entrepreneur knows about himself as part of the society, or thecnical mind programing as NLP and subliminal messages.
    LIFE is the expression of SELF within and as Oneness and Equality

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