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  1. #31
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, it'd be a good thing if it leads to improved practice in dealing with the same sort of thing again, on the other hand it wouldnt be a good thing if it is used as a string in the bow of those arguing for reductions in or no response at all to reports of concerning behaviour, which it will, unfortunately.

    Its unfortunate that the child in question was intellectually challenged, its also unfortunate that there's possibly been trauma involved in the impact of the investigation, although those things are surely to be prefered to either leaving the
    situation uninvestigated altogether or either responses which could've been more summary or unjust.
    I don't think placing a six/ seven year old's name on a sex offenders register particularly just.
    IF it had been just an investigation, looking into the kid's background etc, I think it wouldn't have been entirely unreasonable, if a little heavy handed, but the the kid and the parents were taken to court. Admittedly the articles were a little one sided...it could have been more sinister in nature, but no six year old should be placed on a sex offender's register. That's insane! No matter how disturbed. Have the authorities monitor the situation, investigate, do what they need to do....remove the kid from home if need be, but to be paying for the rest of your life for some thing you did at six is pretty damned harsh.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I don't think placing a six/ seven year old's name on a sex offenders register particularly just.
    IF it had been just an investigation, looking into the kid's background etc, I think it wouldn't have been entirely unreasonable, if a little heavy handed, but the the kid and the parents were taken to court. Admittedly the articles were a little one sided...it could have been more sinister in nature, but no six year old should be placed on a sex offender's register. That's insane! No matter how disturbed. Have the authorities monitor the situation, investigate, do what they need to do....remove the kid from home if need be, but to be paying for the rest of your life for some thing you did at six is pretty damned harsh.
    All those things you mention are pretty much what being registered would involve, the registration process is not simply to deal with the behaviour of the individual who has committed the offence, its about protecting others who could potentially be victimised too. Alerting others when they move to a particular area etc.

    I'll accept that it would be a good idea to appraise and evaluate how systems aimed at reducing or managing this kind of thing work in practice but I'm inclined to believe that they are a good thing. A lot of the pop-libertarian responses to things like this tend to be optimistic, hopeful and diminish any real harm done by the offence or offences involved. I dont concur with that.

    The thing about paying for it all his life is that, its not a crime in the usual sense, its more like a diagnosis and tragic as that often is and while I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, in the main it would be like expecting the lame to walk again.

    When its discovered in early life its often much clearer than in adolescence or adult life, there's much less ambivalence on the part of those making the complaint or allegation which warrants investigation etc.

  3. #33
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    All those things you mention are pretty much what being registered would involve, the registration process is not simply to deal with the behaviour of the individual who has committed the offence, its about protecting others who could potentially be victimised too. Alerting others when they move to a particular area etc.

    I'll accept that it would be a good idea to appraise and evaluate how systems aimed at reducing or managing this kind of thing work in practice but I'm inclined to believe that they are a good thing. A lot of the pop-libertarian responses to
    things like this tend to be optimistic, hopeful and diminish any real harm done by the offence or offences involved. I dont
    concur with that.
    The thing about paying for it all his life is that, its not a crime in the usual sense, its more like a diagnosis and tragic as
    that often is and while I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, in the main it would be like expecting the lame to
    walk again.
    When its discovered in early life its often much clearer than in adolescence or adult life, there's much less ambivalence on
    the part of those making the complaint or allegation which warrants investigation etc.
    I'm not against public sex offender registers BTW. Not all.
    And I agree that improvements in how these cases are handled would be ideal. I dunno I'd be hesitant to pathologise a six year old, unless it was pretty clear cut.
    However, I do understand what you mean about more serious cases being ignored. I mean how have we come to the point where we can't differentiate between normal childhood development, and serious behavioral disturbances.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I'm not against public sex offender registers BTW. Not all.
    And I agree that improvements in how these cases are handled would be ideal. I dunno I'd be hesitant to pathologise a six year old, unless it was pretty clear cut.
    However, I do understand what you mean about more serious cases being ignored. I mean how have we come to the point where we can't differentiate between normal childhood development, and serious behavioral disturbances.
    Everyone's got an opinion and they're all valid.

    That's why, its the "truism" that's repeated all the time without people really thinking about what they're saying or its true implications.

  5. #35
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I think putting a label on a kid that young is going to have major implications for that kid's life- it's like he could almost become a true sex offender because they are calling him a sex offender so young, if you know what I mean. I don't know what happened with the little girl, but I think it should be addressed (appropriately) as an isolated incident. Parents and teachers can keep a closer eye on him and that can be the end of it. It's funny that we're not allowed to give kids a little smack on the butt anymore, but we can legally punish them as if they had the same decision making capacity as an adult.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    That sounds pretty fucked up, and it doesn't help my image of the USA law system. I know, you can find pretty fucked up stuff in any country, but some cases in USA seem to play in an own league.

    Sexual assault? Those kids probably don't even know what they were doing most likely, or at least didn't see in it what adults might see. I know with age of six I wouldn't have known. Actually I still don't know what exactly they were doing, is "butt doctor" now an official term? o_O Now that kid will probably have trouble whole life (who gives a guy with sexual crime history a job?) and all that because some adults project some adult stuff on children. And why do six year old children get treated like adults in law in general? That whole story sounds sooo wrong.

  7. #37
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Wow, this is stupid. I played doctor at about age 7. The girl was a couple of years older than me... I don't regret a thing.

  8. #38
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know about the OP, I'd have to read it and outside of work I dont do that very much, although your own story makes an important point.

    When adults witness something what appears age inappropriate among children it can be an indication that they have been subject to abuse, or simply neglect, maybe they've watched the porn or late night TV which a lousy carer has left on the TV and decided to "play" this out rather than power rangers or whatever.

    Whether they have been abused or not or whatever the cause, like you mentioned about your niece and your dog, you wouldnt expect the child to know what to do, an adult should intervene. An adult response will be warranted, usually better supervision, better care.

    Sure children are curious and sure they could engage in innocent enough physical play or "show me yours and I'll show you mine" but that's in a different order of things and with the amount of other things in life and childhood to be occupied with I see no harm at all in diverting them off that track or to something more appropriate.

    Not just because of the, I consider correct in most instance, attention of the authorities, or any conscientious adult, but because the later they are having to deal with how much of a swamp of confusion, despair and disorder adults have made sex the better.
    You're a social worker, right? In your experience, approximately what % of kids witnessed exhibiting concerning behaviors are actually found to be abuse victims? (ballpark figure, and I do recognize that the number is probably actually higher than what social services are able to uncover)

    My aunt and her husband are neglectful, racist P'sOS, but I don't think my niece is being abused, although I have seen my aunt whack her with a spoon before. But sexual abuse? Hopefully not.
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  9. #39
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Why is this sexual harassment? To a 6 year old, a butt doctor is just somebody who works on butts. I doubt he has any concept of how this could even be seen as sexual.
    You lose.

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  10. #40
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Why is this sexual harassment? To a 6 year old, a butt doctor is just somebody who works on butts. I doubt he has any concept of how this could even be seen as sexual.
    ^ Exactly. The book "Everybody Poops" might as well be considered explicit porn0. (yes, scat)
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