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  1. #1
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Default Police Pepper Spray UC Davis Students

    [YOUTUBE="BjnR7xET7Uo"]...[/YOUTUBE]

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/19/us/cal...html?hpt=hp_t1

    Now this is when police cross the line. No matter if the policemen are getting scared are not, there is almost no reason to pepper spray a group of people doing no harm. You may think a riot somewhere in Oakland may warrant the use of tear-gas/pepper-spray/batons. But from any stand-point, those students weren't causing any harm.

  2. #2
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    First of all, pepper spray is harmless... Any officer that carries it has been sprayed with it, in training, on at least one occasion. It stings, and sucks a lot, but it's absolutely harmless (it's literally a food product). The crowd's defiance against clear orders from law enforcement to scram warrants the use of pepper spray in order to make arrests, and minimize the chance of an unruly crowd to become hostile and combative.

    Of course school administration at one of the most Liberal schools in the nation is going to make a stink about this incident if the police do anything other than ask the protestors if they can take them by the hand and skip merrily out of the park together.

  3. #3

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    I stayed home sick yesterday and the chancellor sent some e-mails regarding this.

    To me it seemed like the students were just sitting there. In defiance sure. But it seemed like the police could have made the arrests without it.

    Frankly, if I had been on campus, I would have been rather annoyed with the protesters.

    But the fact is, they were just sitting there. They were warned there would be force. But the pepper spray seemed unnecessary. Is that standard procedure?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  4. #4
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I think justified use of force is slightly different when it comes to dealing with defiant crowds (regardless of their initial demeanor), but that's just my feeling/guess about it. I don't know specifically if that is true or not. I really don't see any of the officers in this video getting into serious doo doo for this though. It might not have been the BEST way to go about handling the situation. It does LOOK bad, regardless of whether it's technically a justified use of force or not.

    But really, if the crowd is repeatedly warned of impending use of force to remove them, why the hell would you stick around? That's like playing chicken with a stove top. All bias aside, it's pretty stupid on the protestors' part. But does anyone really expect differently?

  5. #5

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    You may think that, but many will think differently.

    What is the justification? The burden of proof is on those using force(to prove the force is not excessive).

    When in doubt, I think those with power should be held more culpable.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #6
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    I got two minutes in, and had to turn it off. The whole episode reminded me of chimpanzees, yelling and getting caught up in the energy of the moment. I hate group demonstrations, and the reactions they cause across the board. They both suck, I don't even care what they were protesting about at this point.

  7. #7
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    You may think that, but many will think differently.

    What is the justification? The burden of proof is on those using force(to prove the force is not excessive).

    When in doubt, I think those with power should be held more culpable.
    I fully agree that when use of force is used by law enforcement, if there is any question as to the appropriateness of said force, it should be fully analyzed and investigated. At the same time, I think that it's important for the investigation to be done under the understanding of the gray nature of the job (the lack of plain black and white). I think that in this case, it'll be pretty easy to rule justified/unjustified by just going to "the books" though. My feeling is that it was a justified use of force, though I'm curious to know for sure.

    I'll probably end up forgetting about this, so I hope someone keeps this thread updated with any new stories on this incident.

  8. #8

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    Yeah. I'd be interested to find out. The crowd seemed rather subdued, so it seemed like directly arresting them would have worked.

    As far as pepper spray being "harmless":
    Although considered a less-than-lethal agent, it may be deadly in rare cases, and concerns have been raised about a number of deaths where being pepper sprayed may have been a contributing factor.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

    I am guessing the officers who get sprayed get sprayed under controlled conditions and may be offered medical help if a rare complication arises.

    The people sprayed here may have complications that are not addressed until it is too late, especially since there are so many of them.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #9
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    Typical liberal protestors using non-violent civil disobedience in support of a sloppy movement.

    Typical conservative police using pepper spray as a means of achiving their dominance.

  10. #10
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Yeah. I'd be interested to find out. The crowd seemed rather subdued, so it seemed like directly arresting them would have worked.

    As far as pepper spray being "harmless":

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

    I am guessing the officers who get sprayed get sprayed under controlled conditions and may be offered medical help if a rare complication arises.

    The people sprayed here may have complications that are not addressed until it is too late, especially since there are so many of them.
    What happen in this incident was that a few of those people were sent to the hospital because of the pepper spray.

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