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  1. #81
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure the threat is when armed thugs show up and beat up old ladies.
    Whoops.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Because they've already shown disobedience and non-compliant behavior. That is exponentially threatening when it's a large group. Your so naive sometimes it hurts.
    People have the right to assemble

    More importantly, how does disobeying a person equate to threatening that person?

    Could you be a good sport and help me to understand. You say that I am naive, but can you help me become not naive?

  3. #83
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    damn there are so many squares on this forum. what's the point of protesting if you're going to back down?

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I agree. So you go in and try to pick up a protestor and put their hands behind their back. Meanwhile you are in a crowd of people who start to shout and try to pull you off their friend. You are now outnumbered and surrounded. Your co-workers are trying to get to you but they can't. They are being pushed back. What do you do now?
    This is an imagined scenario, and not what was happening at Davis. All sorts of things COULD have happened. But the police were dressed in full riot gear, and the protesters were just sitting there.

    There are very few legitimate professions where the use of violence is part of the job. Police and military work are essentially the only occupations. In these occupations, what separates justified use of violence versus unjustified use is of paramount importance. People in these professions have a great deal of power. As a society, we allow behavior by these people that would otherwise be criminal (the use of weapons against people, both lethal and non-lethal for something other than self-defense).

    The justification that "I was just following orders" or "I was just doing my job" is not enough. These reasons are lacking morally, and in places like the U.S., these reasons are lacking legally as well.

    Police and military personal have to realize they are part of a privileged few. With that comes great responsibility. If they are upstanding and know right from wrong, they are the best of our society. I realize that there is a lot of stress, and that most people would not sign up to do this type of job. But, the fact is, they are held to a higher standard, and for good reason.

    Excessive force comes with a steep penalty, because it should. It may be permissible for ordinary citizens to live in the morally grey, but police officers need to avoid that area completely.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #85
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    This is an imagined scenario, and not what was happening at Davis. All sorts of things COULD have happened. But the police were dressed in full riot gear, and the protesters were just sitting there.

    There are very few legitimate professions where the use of violence is part of the job. Police and military work are essentially the only occupations. In these occupations, what separates justified use of violence versus unjustified use is of paramount importance. People in these professions have a great deal of power. As a society, we allow behavior by these people that would otherwise be criminal (the use of weapons against people, both lethal and non-lethal for something other than self-defense).

    The justification that "I was just following orders" or "I was just doing my job" is not enough. These reasons are lacking morally, and in places like the U.S., these reasons are lacking legally as well.

    Police and military personal have to realize they are part of a privileged few. With that comes great responsibility. If they are upstanding and know right from wrong, they are the best of our society. I realize that there is a lot of stress, and that most people would not sign up to do this type of job. But, the fact is, they are held to a higher standard, and for good reason.

    Excessive force comes with a steep penalty, because it should. It may be permissible for ordinary citizens to live in the morally grey, but police officers need to avoid that area completely.


    How do you think the police should handle crowds of people that refuse to disassemble and vacate, against orders?
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  6. #86
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    How do you think the police should handle crowds of people that refuse to disassemble and vacate, against orders?

    Police have the power and duty to arrest a person who is suspected of violating a law

  7. #87
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Police have the power and duty to arrest a person who is suspected of violating a law
    Lose the alien.
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  8. #88
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Lose the alien.
    What is the alien?

  9. #89
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What is the alien?
    Apparently the alien is reason.
    Whoops.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Police have the power and duty to arrest a person who is suspected of violating a law
    This. Keep in mind they were in riot gear.

    Saying the the possible injury of the officer outweighed the possible injury or complication as a result of pepper spray use seems ridiculous, considering:
    1) there were 2 cases of complications from the pepper spray,
    2) all the people that were breaking the law were sitting down, the rest were just students watching. If I had been at school at that time, I may have been one of the curious folks checking out what was going on.
    3) in the video, it didn't even look like the people refusing to move outnumbered the police (almost the opposite)

    Quite frankly, I think the police need to re-think the worst-case scenario training policy, because that puts the officers in a paranoid mindset, and leads directly to the use of excessive force and escalation (the worst-case scenario becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy).

    Like I said, they are a privileged few, and should be held to higher standards.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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